Discussion:
GS/OS updates, new GS hardware
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c***@gmail.com
2018-02-04 08:58:04 UTC
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Does someone have the source code to System 6.0.1? How have the updates (now up to 6.0.4) been possible? I can’t imagine someone disassembled, modified, then reassembled. That just seems insane.

Anyway, I really want to contribute to this as well. Would love if someone helped me out with locating the source code.

Long term, I have many ideas of what could be done. I’m working on a few designs for a graphics card and coprocessor card. Not that difficult to implement. What would be great though is if I had the system source. This way, for example, QuickDraw could be updated to work with the native features of the new graphics card, while maintaining compatibility with the older tool calls. The video buffer on the GS main board would be copied to the new card, much like the SecondSight as to maintain backwards compatibility. Additionally, system applications such as the Finder could be updated to support the new QuickDraw calls for the new card.

As far as the coprocessor card, this would also plug into the CPU socket, act as a traditional accelerator and maintain compatibility, while new tools would be developed to offload intensive tasks to the card’s ARM cores.

Other plans include possibly a secondary interconnect between the two cards to get around the GS’s system bus limitations.
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-04 10:44:02 UTC
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The source code is compatible with MPW, one had to create a working MPW environment and... voilà.

Working on 6.0.1 when 6.0.4 is out there is not a good idea. I'm sure those behind 6.0.4 will read your message and will contact you.

I've thought about the QD updates. The problem that we have for higher res support is the 1MHz bus that would slow down things. I see a couple of options from what they did on the Mac:
- add a driver layer to transfer all drawing calls to the driver and output in the res of the driver,
- have a video card that would read the IIgs memory , the screen buffer, and display what is there,
- have a sort of QD3 in the video card and all drawing calls would be passed to the board and rendered there.

All options have their advantages and drawbacks.

Antoine
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-04 15:43:59 UTC
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Oh definitely, I should have clarified. I would build upon the work they did up to 6.0.4, I'm just assuming that they had the source from 6.0.1 (and inherently 6.0.4). I have all the ORCA development tools, and a compatibility layer so I can build directly on OS X.

PS. 6.0.4 builders, I notice the copyright date reverted back to the original Apple dates, not the new dates in 6.0.2, 6.0.3.
Post by Antoine Vignau
The source code is compatible with MPW, one had to create a working MPW environment and... voilà.
Working on 6.0.1 when 6.0.4 is out there is not a good idea. I'm sure those behind 6.0.4 will read your message and will contact you.
- add a driver layer to transfer all drawing calls to the driver and output in the res of the driver,
- have a video card that would read the IIgs memory , the screen buffer, and display what is there,
- have a sort of QD3 in the video card and all drawing calls would be passed to the board and rendered there.
All options have their advantages and drawbacks.
Antoine
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-04 20:04:37 UTC
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OK but it is not Orca but MPW. Same syntax but assembly is on the Mac side

av
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-04 22:33:28 UTC
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I know of the MPW cross dev, but you need a classic Mac or to emulate one. Have you seen Golden Gate? Let’s you develop and compile on modern IDEs

http://a2central.com/7581/ksherlock-orca-juicedgs/
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-04 23:20:00 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
I know of the MPW cross dev, but you need a classic Mac or to emulate one. Have you seen Golden Gate? Let’s you develop and compile on modern IDEs
http://a2central.com/7581/ksherlock-orca-juicedgs/
Yes, I know that one but I prefer using Basilisk II to assemble the System. Kelvin's GG (at least on the first version) does not emulate all the tools to assemble the system. But, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Watch
;-)

Antoine
Kelvin Sherlock
2018-02-05 09:38:55 UTC
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The mpw compatibility layer does a decent job of running the MPW IIgs
tools under OS X. A better job than the real MPW running on actual
(or emulated) hardware, in my experience.

https://github.com/ksherlock/mpw

Some of the the MPW makefiles work as-is, others need a few tweaks.

https://asciinema.org/a/sR6HGsPY7uivVg29dftuuXChs
Post by c***@gmail.com
I know of the MPW cross dev, but you need a classic Mac or to emulate one.
Have you seen Golden Gate? Lets you develop and compile on modern IDEs
Post by c***@gmail.com
http://a2central.com/7581/ksherlock-orca-juicedgs/
Yes, I know that one but I prefer using Basilisk II to assemble the System.
Kelvin's GG (at least on the first version) does not emulate all the tools
to assemble the system. But, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Watch http://youtu.be/L1tLhckz5q4 ;-)
Antoine
-------
ProLine: ***@pro-kegs
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-05 06:33:24 UTC
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That is cool to know. I should try someday. What are the few tweaks?!?
av
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-05 15:43:25 UTC
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These are both really good and viable solutions. Still need someone to help me out with locating a copy of the GS/OS source…
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-05 15:54:20 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
These are both really good and viable solutions. Still need someone to help me out with locating a copy of the GS/OS source…
If someone wants to help me with a copy of the source, I think it would be great to have it in a private git repo. This way we can track the changes from 6.0.1 all the way to the latest 6.0.4
c***@gmail.com
2018-02-09 15:15:17 UTC
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So no one has the GS/OS source code? Anyone?
Charlie
2018-02-10 17:48:42 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
So no one has the GS/OS source code? Anyone?
I've never heard of anyone outside of Apple having the original source
code. Possibly some have disassembled parts for the more recent updates.

Incidentally, GS/OS and System 6.0.x are not the same thing.

Charlie
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-10 23:46:37 UTC
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Some have the original source code of the IIgs world (firmware, tools, gs/os 4, apps) that make System 6.0.1. That version was also on macgui.com

av
Charlie
2018-02-11 00:27:46 UTC
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Post by Antoine Vignau
Some have the original source code of the IIgs world (firmware, tools, gs/os 4, apps)
I can't imagine who that would be. ;-)
Post by Antoine Vignau
that make System 6.0.1. That version was also on macgui.com
av
I didn't know that. Is it still there?

Charlie
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-11 06:49:27 UTC
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I don't know but there's a search engine there ;-)
av
Charlie
2018-02-11 15:36:15 UTC
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Post by Antoine Vignau
I don't know but there's a search engine there ;-)
av
Yeah, I checked that before posting and didn't find it.

Charlie
D Finnigan
2018-02-12 14:00:49 UTC
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Post by Charlie
Post by Antoine Vignau
I don't know but there's a search engine there ;-)
av
Yeah, I checked that before posting and didn't find it.
Charlie
Hi, I no longer distribute that file via the Internet. But it is still part
of the Mac GUI Vault DVD collection. Email me if you would like it.
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Charlie
2018-02-12 19:27:07 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Post by Charlie
Post by Antoine Vignau
I don't know but there's a search engine there ;-)
av
Yeah, I checked that before posting and didn't find it.
Charlie
Hi, I no longer distribute that file via the Internet. But it is still part
of the Mac GUI Vault DVD collection. Email me if you would like it.
Hi David,
Thank you but I really don't need it. It is good to know that the
source code has not been lost forever.

Charlie
Julian Uy
2018-02-17 05:02:52 UTC
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Post by Charlie
Post by D Finnigan
Post by Charlie
Post by Antoine Vignau
I don't know but there's a search engine there ;-)
av
Yeah, I checked that before posting and didn't find it.
Charlie
Hi, I no longer distribute that file via the Internet. But it is still part
of the Mac GUI Vault DVD collection. Email me if you would like it.
Hi David,
Thank you but I really don't need it. It is good to know that the
source code has not been lost forever.
Charlie
I still have that file.
Feel free to e-mail me if you want it.

James Davis
2018-02-06 01:53:16 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Does someone have the source code to System 6.0.1? How have the updates (now up to 6.0.4) been possible? I can’t imagine someone disassembled, modified, then reassembled. That just seems insane.
Anyway, I really want to contribute to this as well. Would love if someone helped me out with locating the source code.
Long term, I have many ideas of what could be done. I’m working on a few designs for a graphics card and coprocessor card. Not that difficult to implement. What would be great though is if I had the system source. This way, for example, QuickDraw could be updated to work with the native features of the new graphics card, while maintaining compatibility with the older tool calls. The video buffer on the GS main board would be copied to the new card, much like the SecondSight as to maintain backwards compatibility. Additionally, system applications such as the Finder could be updated to support the new QuickDraw calls for the new card.
As far as the coprocessor card, this would also plug into the CPU socket, act as a traditional accelerator and maintain compatibility, while new tools would be developed to offload intensive tasks to the card’s ARM cores.
Other plans include possibly a secondary interconnect between the two cards to get around the GS’s system bus limitations.
I don't know if this will help you and you probably already have this disk image and info., but here it is, just in case you don't:

==============================================================================
File: apple_programmers introduction to the apple iigs.po
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disk: ProDOS /HP (800KB), ProDOS Block Ordering.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: ftp://public.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/programming/65816_gs/apple_programmers introduction to the apple iigs.po
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: This disk-image contains 65816, Pascal, and C versions of HodgePodge, a demo program to demonstrate many features of the Apple //GS tools. It also contains some picture files which are readable by HodgePodge.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name Type Auxtyp Modified Format Length
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
README TXT $0009 11-Sep-87 17:24 ProDOS 1026
HP.ASM DIR $0000 19-Nov-87 11:59 ProDOS 1024
HP.ASM:README TXT $0001 11-Sep-87 17:37 ProDOS 2635
HP.ASM:MAKE SRC $0006 11-Sep-87 19:51 ProDOS 407
HP.ASM:LINK SRC $0009 28-Aug-87 16:12 ProDOS 73
HP.ASM:HP.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:02 ProDOS 8538
HP.ASM:EVENT.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:03 ProDOS 14627
HP.ASM:MENU.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:03 ProDOS 11248
HP.ASM:WINDOW.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:03 ProDOS 32732
HP.ASM:DIALOG.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:44 ProDOS 16053
HP.ASM:FONT.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:04 ProDOS 9703
HP.ASM:PRINT.ASM SRC $0003 26-Oct-87 11:14 ProDOS 6064
HP.ASM:IO.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:04 ProDOS 3173
HP.ASM:INIT.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:03 ProDOS 15880
HP.ASM:GLOBALS.ASM SRC $0003 21-Oct-87 10:04 ProDOS 7266
HP.ASM:HP.MACROS TXT $0000 27-Oct-87 14:33 ProDOS 8795
HP.ASM:HP S16 $0100 19-Nov-87 11:56 ProDOS 13312
HP.PAS DIR $0000 17-Nov-91 12:14 ProDOS 1024
HP.PAS:README TXT $0003 23-Sep-87 11:58 ProDOS 3405
HP.PAS:MAKE SRC $0006 14-Sep-87 20:44 ProDOS 791
HP.PAS:LINK SRC $0009 12-Sep-87 01:17 ProDOS 311
HP.PAS:HP.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:25 ProDOS 15674
HP.PAS:EVENT.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:28 ProDOS 5007
HP.PAS:MENU.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:28 ProDOS 5397
HP.PAS:WINDOW.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:28 ProDOS 9295
HP.PAS:PRINT.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:28 ProDOS 3827
HP.PAS:PAINT.PAS SRC $001E 27-Oct-87 13:33 ProDOS 7293
HP.PAS:FONT.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:27 ProDOS 5299
HP.PAS:DIALOG.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:39 ProDOS 9663
HP.PAS:GLOBALS.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:27 ProDOS 10342
HP.PAS:HPINTF.DATA.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:33 ProDOS 14584
HP.PAS:HPINTF.PROC.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:34 ProDOS 12777
HP.PAS:HPINTF.P16.PAS SRC $001E 21-Oct-87 11:35 ProDOS 11727
HP.PAS:HP.P S16 $0100 19-Nov-87 11:30 ProDOS 22016
HP.PAS:Finder.Data FND $0000 10-Feb-91 21:21 ProDOS 370
HP.PAS:total.Pas TXT $0000 17-Nov-91 12:14 ProDOS 89432
HP.CC DIR $0000 10-Feb-91 21:21 ProDOS 1024
HP.CC:README TXT $0003 11-Sep-87 17:39 ProDOS 1917
HP.CC:MAKE SRC $0006 11-Sep-87 17:31 ProDOS 528
HP.CC:LINK SRC $0009 05-Sep-87 17:23 ProDOS 420
HP.CC:HP.CC SRC $000A 23-Oct-87 15:29 ProDOS 10621
HP.CC:EVENT.CC SRC $000A 22-Oct-87 12:07 ProDOS 7527
HP.CC:MENU.CC SRC $000A 22-Oct-87 12:07 ProDOS 5091
HP.CC:WINDOW.CC SRC $000A 02-Feb-88 15:13 ProDOS 17885
HP.CC:FONT.CC SRC $000A 22-Oct-87 12:00 ProDOS 6989
HP.CC:PRINT.CC SRC $000A 22-Oct-87 12:00 ProDOS 2972
HP.CC:DIALOG.CC SRC $000A 23-Oct-87 09:16 ProDOS 10425
HP.CC:HP.H SRC $000A 05-Sep-87 16:31 ProDOS 3809
HP.CC:Finder.Data FND $0000 10-Feb-91 21:21 ProDOS 282
HP.CC:HP.C S16 $0100 02-Feb-88 15:47 ProDOS 24576
PIC1 PIC $0000 07-Oct-86 09:53 ProDOS 32768
PIC2 PIC $0000 07-Oct-86 09:53 ProDOS 32768
PIC3 PIC $0000 07-Oct-86 09:54 ProDOS 32768
PIC4 PIC $0000 07-Oct-86 09:54 ProDOS 32768
Finder.Data FND $0000 10-Feb-91 21:21 ProDOS 194
PIC2.BIS PNT $0002 11-Feb-91 17:21 ProDOS 25702
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-06 11:50:27 UTC
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James,
The HodgePodge code was useful in the early days of the IIgs. Since System 5, the code is outdated. It remains useful to understand the toolbox concepts,

Antoine
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