Discussion:
WiFi232 Modem
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6***@gmail.com
2017-05-18 05:54:05 UTC
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Hi guys,

anyone any experiences with this?

http://biosrhythm.com/wifi232/WiFi232ModemUsersGuide.pdf

Seems interesting - more like a real peripheral for the Apple II - not like the Raspberry PI where the Apple II is reduced to a keyboard.

Especially beneath the function of telnet to a BBS the use of websites could be interesting.
James Davis
2017-05-18 07:39:35 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Hi guys,
anyone any experiences with this?
http://biosrhythm.com/wifi232/WiFi232ModemUsersGuide.pdf
Seems interesting - more like a real peripheral for the Apple II - not like the Raspberry PI where the Apple II is reduced to a keyboard.
Especially beneath the function of telnet to a BBS the use of websites could be interesting.
Cool! Downloaded PDF. Will have to get back to you after I have looked at it.
James Davis
2017-05-19 01:26:58 UTC
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Post by James Davis
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Hi guys,
anyone any experiences with this?
http://biosrhythm.com/wifi232/WiFi232ModemUsersGuide.pdf
Seems interesting - more like a real peripheral for the Apple II - not like the Raspberry PI where the Apple II is reduced to a keyboard.
Especially beneath the function of telnet to a BBS the use of websites could be interesting.
Cool! Downloaded PDF. Will have to get back to you after I have looked at it.
Looks promising for Apple II users who have WiFi and an RS232 interface like the SSC.
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-19 05:05:11 UTC
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How is the

"ATGET http://www.somewhere.com /mydoc.txt
Get and display the contents of a web site address as 8-bit data. Connection is terminated immediately following the end of the file."

function.

How are websites displayed as 8-bit data?
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-19 11:38:09 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
How is the
"ATGET http://www.somewhere.com /mydoc.txt
Get and display the contents of a web site address as 8-bit data.
Connection is terminated immediately following the end of the file."
function.
How are websites displayed as 8-bit data?
I've not tried that.

Give me a couple of example URLs and I'll try it out. I'll send you
some pictures.
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-19 15:20:44 UTC
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Well, maybe

this page
www.google.com
www.ebay.com

Maybe you can show some of them you think they are good for demonstrating
the modem.


Another point: how does the WiFiModem feel. with the raspberry pi I always
have the feeling that the only part left by this from my Apple II is the
keyboard - is that the same with the modem or does it feel more like a
peripheral util like a modem?

What really would be great would be a possibility to use ADTpro with it's
ethernet function with it.
datawiz
2017-05-19 16:44:50 UTC
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I believe all this will do is stream the file directly to the terminal as raw 8-bit ascii. Handy if it's a text file (capture it in your terminal), if it contains binary probably not so much.

I don't believe there's a text-based browser embedded in the device that will provide a web browsing experience, so you'll probably just get the raw html file data.
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Well, maybe
this page
www.google.com
www.ebay.com
Maybe you can show some of them you think they are good for demonstrating
the modem.
Another point: how does the WiFiModem feel. with the raspberry pi I always
have the feeling that the only part left by this from my Apple II is the
keyboard - is that the same with the modem or does it feel more like a
peripheral util like a modem?
What really would be great would be a possibility to use ADTpro with it's
ethernet function with it.
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-19 18:19:31 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Well, maybe
this page
www.google.com
www.ebay.com
Maybe you can show some of them you think they are good for demonstrating
the modem.
They are going to be image heavy and I'm not sure what will happen when
you put SSL into the equation, but I'll try them out and let you know.
This weekend.
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Another point: how does the WiFiModem feel. with the raspberry pi I always
have the feeling that the only part left by this from my Apple II is the
keyboard - is that the same with the modem or does it feel more like a
peripheral util like a modem?
I find myself a little uncertain about what you're saying.

If you're connecting your Apple II to the Pi and then logging into the
Pi shell and telnetting various places, then I might understand what
you mean by the Apple II feeling like an irrelevant piece of the puzzle.

However, if you're using tcpser on the Pi and then using vintage
terminal programs like ProTERM, Agate, Z-Link, Talk-Is-Cheap, etc.,
then I would say the Wifi232 is functionally no different from the
tcpser/Pi combination. The main difference would be a smaller package
in the Wifi232. Plus, to my mind, tcpser is a bit more flexible and
behaves better with some terminal programs than others. But both are
workable solutions.
Post by 6***@gmail.com
What really would be great would be a possibility to use ADTpro with it's
ethernet function with it.
Well, I don't know. My guess is it wouldn't work with ADTPro. ADTPro
talks to serial unless you tell it you're talking to Ethernet and
_that_ requires an Uthernet II (or maybe one of the others). I don't
know that using the Wifi232 to bridge serial onto Wifi/Tcp is going to
allow ADTPro running on your Windows/Linux/Mac host to see the bridged
ADTPro running on the Apple II.

But I bet David Schmidt would know! :-)

Cheers,

m
David Schmidt
2017-05-19 19:17:02 UTC
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Post by ultramagnus_tcv
Post by 6***@gmail.com
What really would be great would be a possibility to use ADTpro with it's
ethernet function with it.
Well, I don't know. My guess is it wouldn't work with ADTPro. ADTPro
talks to serial unless you tell it you're talking to Ethernet and _that_
requires an Uthernet II (or maybe one of the others). I don't know that
using the Wifi232 to bridge serial onto Wifi/Tcp is going to allow
ADTPro running on your Windows/Linux/Mac host to see the bridged ADTPro
running on the Apple II.
But I bet David Schmidt would know! :-)
:-)

So, no, this adapter is not going in a direction that would be helpful
with ADTPro. If we were talking 20-30 years ago, and it made sense to
communicate over a phone line with ADTPro between server and client -
then there would be a modem communications layer built in that (for
example) knew how to issue AT commands and store "phone numbers". Then
it would "dial out" and communicate that way. But the problem we have
today is 1) comms over modem doesn't really suit the ADTPro use case,
and 2) the TCP/IP support is hiding _behind_ the modem interface, where
an Apple II can't really get straight at it.
mrbrad
2017-05-20 04:39:11 UTC
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Post by David Schmidt
Post by ultramagnus_tcv
Post by 6***@gmail.com
What really would be great would be a possibility to use ADTpro with it's
ethernet function with it.
Well, I don't know. My guess is it wouldn't work with ADTPro. ADTPro
talks to serial unless you tell it you're talking to Ethernet and _that_
requires an Uthernet II (or maybe one of the others). I don't know that
using the Wifi232 to bridge serial onto Wifi/Tcp is going to allow
ADTPro running on your Windows/Linux/Mac host to see the bridged ADTPro
running on the Apple II.
But I bet David Schmidt would know! :-)
:-)
So, no, this adapter is not going in a direction that would be helpful
with ADTPro. If we were talking 20-30 years ago, and it made sense to
communicate over a phone line with ADTPro between server and client -
then there would be a modem communications layer built in that (for
example) knew how to issue AT commands and store "phone numbers". Then
it would "dial out" and communicate that way. But the problem we have
today is 1) comms over modem doesn't really suit the ADTPro use case,
and 2) the TCP/IP support is hiding _behind_ the modem interface, where
an Apple II can't really get straight at it.
AS an aside....could this be used for connecting an apple ii via serial
to a inet capable bbs (back in the day worldgroup)

In other words...I had 2 apple 22 bbs's 1 fv/metal 4.0xev bbs on a an
apple ii gs and another 1 apple 2 gs with tpro RPB BBS also.

The tpro was dumb...a serial connection worked via a dialup program
in worldgroup msdos bbs.....the fv/metal went thru a phone line
into this dialup program for users to connect

(was amusing to find 256 users of the wg bbs with majormud fighting to
get into the fv/metal 1 line only bbs via worldgroup bbs to play
'spacer quest' lol ) :)

anyway you can see where this is going....supposedly I could use this
modem of yours to either

1) trick the bbs into thinking it is just another tcp/ip connection to
the fv/metal bbs

2) act as a null modem or something to do so

anyway curious..I got one of these from you...if such is possible
may look into it (thou been promising to do that for 10 years no time
this hole bitcoin mining thing came up to fill my geek life)

thanks for whatever 'guess' you can make on this

if anyone want to experiment with how I used a inet windows bbs to
allow all into apple ii bbs's I'd just get below

1) synchronet bbs pkg..plug and play ..should work with windows 7
and maybe 10 everything is there including taking regular door game
programs and allowing multinode w/o a multinode box ..built in

2) then get a bbs dialout door program and try to connect your
apple ii bbs of any flavor in the above manner

the synchronet site is here..free...fun to play with...again look
it over pretty sure it works with windows 7 they also have a msdos
6.21 version (or did)

anyway toss the synrhonet up with GUI on the web add the door program
ad a page to your apple ii bbs and you should be good

me .know I can do it ...just no time

www.synchro.net for plug and play download install

brad
former sysop lost gonzo bbs

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-20 14:40:11 UTC
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That's great - I'm really interested in that.

Now I ordered one and I hope that it will be as you say. A real peripheral
card for my Apple II.

Which terminal programs have you tested? On the PI you need to use one with
VT-100 emulation, and you have to take 4800 baud- is this the same with the
WiFi232, or can I use f.e. VisiTerm with an old communication card with 300
Baud?

Oh, ok - hoped that it could work with ADTPro. I use it on my IIe with an
Uthernet (Rev.0) and with my Mac (wifi) via Ethernet. Works great - so I would have
been glad to use this modem the same way but on my Apple II ...
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-21 14:16:15 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Which terminal programs have you tested? On the PI you need to use one with
VT-100 emulation, and you have to take 4800 baud- is this the same with the
WiFi232, or can I use f.e. VisiTerm with an old communication card with 300
Baud?
I don't understand why you've needed to use a terminal program with
VT-100 emulation when using the Pi. But, as I said, I use tcpser on the
Pi. I don't know what you're doing with yours exactly.

I wrote an article for the current Juiced.GS that details exactly how
to use a vintage Apple II with the Pi/tcpser combination. That one even
includes some disk images you can download if you have any solid-state
mass storage devices like the FloppyEMU or CFFA3000.

In regards to your original question about terminal programs and the
Wifi232, I've used the following:

ProTERM 3.1
Agate
Modem MGR
Talk-Is-Cheap
Z-Link

ProTERM will pause during startup complaining that the "modem" isn't
responding. However, there's an "Online" button on that screen that you
can use to continue into the program. Then you just need to make sure
your baud rate in ProTERM is the same as what is currently set on the
Wifi232. Once done, tap Closed-Apple-T and you'll be in the terminal.
AT commands will do the rest.

At 9600, Agate and Modem.MGR work well. I've experienced dropped and
corrupted characters in the others.
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Oh, ok - hoped that it could work with ADTPro. I use it on my IIe with an
Uthernet (Rev.0) and with my Mac (wifi) via Ethernet. Works great - so I would have
been glad to use this modem the same way but on my Apple II ...
Your current set up is the best for this.

m
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-21 17:44:46 UTC
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Post by ultramagnus_tcv
I don't understand why you've needed to use a terminal program with
VT-100 emulation when using the Pi. But, as I said, I use tcpser on the
Pi. I don't know what you're doing with yours exactly.
Ah, I tested and understand what you mean. So far I always used the PI with Raspple and a2cloud. There you have to use VT-100.
You mean you activate tcpser (f.e.: tcpser -s 4800 -d/dev/ttyUSB0) not with the Apple II on the PI - I do so. But after your post I tried as follows: activated tcpser with my Apple II on the PI with VT-100; then no emulation and it works - very good.

Is there a way to start tcpser automatically on the PI while it boots up?
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-21 23:03:37 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Is there a way to start tcpser automatically on the PI while it boots up?
A friend shared this with me:

https://pastebin.com/y2wcRLxn

This particular block goes into /etc/rc.local. All the BBS=$BBS lines
create a long series of -n arguments that create phone book entries
when tcpser starts. For instance...

BBS=$BBS" -nheatwave=heatwave.ddns.net:9640"

Means that "atdt heatwave" will tell tcpser to dial heatwave.ddns.net
on port 9640.

Also, be aware that this block is also setup for four instances of
tcpser attached to four different USB/Serial adapters. If you have one
serial adapter and you know it's tied to ttyUSB0, you'll at least want
to comment out the other tcpser startup commands and remove the '&'
from the one you run.

Lastly, I'm not sure why he's specifying the -p argument. It's not
needed if all you're doing is _calling_ BBSs from your Apple II. So,
here's what I suggest:

# Your comment here
tcpser -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -s9600 $BBS

That will start tcpser upon startup with 9600 bps as your calling speed.

This friend has done a lot more with udev rules and multiple USB/Serial
adapters, but I won't go into that just yet. Let me know if you want to
see that stuff.
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-22 15:39:36 UTC
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So,
Post by ultramagnus_tcv
# Your comment here
tcpser -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -s9600 $BBS
That will start tcpser upon startup with 9600 bps as your calling speed.
That's what I need - I will try that. Thanks!
Post by ultramagnus_tcv
This friend has done a lot more with udev rules and multiple USB/Serial
adapters, but I won't go into that just yet. Let me know if you want to
see that stuff.
Great - would be very interesting!



Another question towards the WiFi232 came along this day:

Since in the description about the WiFi232 is written that it emulates a Hayes modem - includes that also the Hayes Micromodem II. I mean will a program that expects the Hayes Micromodem II in f.e. Slot 2 accept a SSC connected to the WiFi232 as a Hayes Micromodem II?
Scott Alfter
2017-05-22 16:44:43 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Since in the description about the WiFi232 is written that it emulates a
Hayes modem - includes that also the Hayes Micromodem II. I mean will a
program that expects the Hayes Micromodem II in f.e. Slot 2 accept a SSC
connected to the WiFi232 as a Hayes Micromodem II?
At this point, "Hayes-compatible" means it supports ATxxx commands to
control the modem and the use of +++ (with 1-second delays before and after)
to take control of the modem during a call. Did Hayes' earlier products
support this protocol, or did they use something else?

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-23 01:10:36 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Since in the description about the WiFi232 is written that it emulates
a Hayes modem - includes that also the Hayes Micromodem II. I mean will
a program that expects the Hayes Micromodem II in f.e. Slot 2 accept a
SSC connected to the WiFi232 as a Hayes Micromodem II?
That I do not know. Did the Hayes Micromodem II use the AT-command set?
Hugh Hood
2017-05-23 01:32:10 UTC
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Mike,

I remember buying a 300 baud Micromodem II in 1982. IIRC, it wasn't
cheap, either.

I think I used SSM Transend software with it (and possibly VisiTerm),
and was disappointed when some better comm software was released that
required 'AT Compatibility', and the Micromodem II did not fit that
bill, in spite of it being a 'Hayes' product.





Hugh Hood
Post by ultramagnus_tcv
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Since in the description about the WiFi232 is written that it emulates
a Hayes modem - includes that also the Hayes Micromodem II. I mean will
a program that expects the Hayes Micromodem II in f.e. Slot 2 accept a
SSC connected to the WiFi232 as a Hayes Micromodem II?
That I do not know. Did the Hayes Micromodem II use the AT-command set?
6***@gmail.com
2017-05-23 12:02:22 UTC
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Yes, you're right. I took a look at my Hayes with VisiTerm, ASCII Express Pro and Kermit. All of them can handle the Micromodem II, but not with AT commands. They use the special Micromodem II dial program.

So there won't be a possibility to use the WiFi232 with software that expects the Hayes Micromodem II.

Thought I could use it with Networks II - but that will not work.
Leeland Heins
2017-05-24 05:06:27 UTC
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Post by ultramagnus_tcv
That I do not know. Did the Hayes Micromodem II use the AT-command set?
No, it did not.

The Micromodem II was also only 300bps. Pretty much awful even in its day.
Michael J. Mahon
2017-05-24 14:25:35 UTC
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Post by Leeland Heins
Post by ultramagnus_tcv
That I do not know. Did the Hayes Micromodem II use the AT-command set?
No, it did not.
The Micromodem II was also only 300bps. Pretty much awful even in its day.
Actually, pretty standard in its day... It was quite a while until 1200
baud modems became common.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
ultramagnus_tcv
2017-05-18 20:55:53 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Hi guys,
anyone any experiences with this?
Yes, I have one. What would you like to know?
James Davis
2017-05-19 20:33:10 UTC
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This WiFi232 Modem (hardware) is merely the back end of an Apple II slot peripheral card that gives you an RS232 interface (like the SSC or the built in ports on newer Apple II models {IIc~IIgs}) that converts that RS232 port into a MoDem. That is all it is! Functionally, together, they are the same as a MoDem card, normally plugged into Slot 2, but with WiFi I/O instead of a telephone cord, like a cell phone. It convers RS232 to Modulated/Demodulated WiFi telephone communications.
Leeland Heins
2017-05-24 05:19:48 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Hi guys,
anyone any experiences with this?
http://biosrhythm.com/wifi232/WiFi232ModemUsersGuide.pdf
Seems interesting - more like a real peripheral for the Apple II - not like the Raspberry PI where the Apple II is reduced to a keyboard.
Especially beneath the function of telnet to a BBS the use of websites could be interesting.
I am familiar with the ESP8266 chip which is what the WiFi232 is based on (specifically the ESP-01). In fact I've designed an Apple II plug in card which does not need an SSC. Or more accurrately, it includes a 6551 UART like an SSC, but it is directly hooked to the ESP8266 on the card instead of external with an RS-232 cable.

The AT command set capability is only one way to utilize the ESP8266. There are alternate firmwares which allow it to be programmed with C, LUA, Python, etc. Regardless of this, what needs to be done to make either my plug in card or the WiFI232 truly useful on an Apple II is to write software to better drive it than a simple terminal program. Something that can save binary data fetched by an ATGET, etc. Either that or write code for the ESP to facilitate interfacing it with one of the Apple II TCP/IP stacks like Marina or Marinetti, etc.

I'm hoping to get to writing software for the card I'm designing but that will have to wait until after I get done with Cavaldos, my Ciderpress work-alike for Linux.
cybernesto
2017-05-25 18:23:28 UTC
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Post by 6***@gmail.com
Hi guys,
anyone any experiences with this?
http://biosrhythm.com/wifi232/WiFi232ModemUsersGuide.pdf
Seems interesting - more like a real peripheral for the Apple II - not like the Raspberry PI where the Apple II is reduced to a keyboard.
Especially beneath the function of telnet to a BBS the use of websites could be interesting.
I was also reluctant to connect my //c to a raspberry pi even if I have already a couple running some stuff in the house. The fact that you have to wait it to boot and shutdown before powering off really gave the feeling that the Apple II is the peripheral and not the other way around.
After I ordered the WiFi232 I noticed that I had all the necessary components in my parts bin so I wired up an ESP2866 with a MAX3232 and a 3,3V power supply and flashed it with the firmware here: https://github.com/jsalin/esp8266_modem
A small modification to mask the input stream to 7 bits allowed me to even use the terminal mode of the //c serial port and dial up the Dura Europos BBS without needing any software.
Agate on the other hand does an awesome job emulating an ANSI terminal so that even some cool artwork from other BBS is displayed nicely.
This setup really feels like you were using a smart modem. I believe that the popularity of the WiFi232 will greatly increase the BBS traffic over telnet in the next months.
6***@gmail.com
2017-07-02 05:52:57 UTC
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Paul Rickards wrote an very interesting Bulletin (#82) about the WiFi232 and why it is very difficult to host a BBS with it, on A 80's Apple II BBS - telnet: a80sappleiibbs.ddns.net:6502
p***@gmail.com
2018-01-31 12:23:43 UTC
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I just changed the admin username and password. Now, I forget it and is there any way to enter the configuration page?
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