Discussion:
Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode
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Steve Nickolas
2017-08-06 16:26:28 UTC
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As we know, one of the Apple /// system disks boots DOS 3.3 with Integer
Basic active without locking the system into ][ mode.

A few years ago I wrote a program that, when booted from SOS, loads a
modified ][+ ROM, and allows DOS 3.3 to be booted from a separate disk -
again without locking the system into ][ mode. It uses SOS to set the
font.

One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted directly
into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the system into ][
mode.

How much of this might be possible...

If booted from a /// load a more ][-like font and my custom version of
FPBASIC from disk, then load DOS 3.3 and continue as usual.

Boot DOS 3.3 if loaded from a ][.

-uso.
qkumba
2017-08-06 20:54:28 UTC
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It's definitely possible. I have a disk that boots ProDOS if the disk in drive 2 is ProDOS, else boots Directi-DOS (two-track Diversi-DOS loaded directly into LC), so that you can catalog and run whatever is in drive 2.
The same idea could be used to detect the hardware instead and load the appropriate OS.
Steve Nickolas
2017-08-06 21:14:00 UTC
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Post by qkumba
It's definitely possible. I have a disk that boots ProDOS if the disk in drive 2 is ProDOS, else boots Directi-DOS (two-track Diversi-DOS loaded directly into LC), so that you can catalog and run whatever is in drive 2.
The same idea could be used to detect the hardware instead and load the appropriate OS.
Well, there's the ProDOS/SOS dual bootstrap.

Also with this method, the program could load the necessary code for
"Satan Mode" (the font, the disk rom, the modified FPBASIC), and then just
rely on the Apple ][ boot procedure to load DOS 3.3 (perhaps skipping the
recalibration as it would be unneeded).

-uso.
Chris Zuhars
2017-08-07 01:53:24 UTC
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Does Satan mode allow for emulated Apple II to take advantage of 80 column mode, >48k memory, etc? Does it disable the extra hardware to disable native /// hardware advantages to emulated II mode?

I'm designing my homebrew Apple /// to allow emulated II to have these features.

Chris Z
Steve Nickolas
2017-08-07 03:00:05 UTC
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Post by Chris Zuhars
Does Satan mode allow for emulated Apple II to take advantage of 80
column mode, >48k memory, etc? Does it disable the extra hardware to
disable native /// hardware advantages to emulated II mode?
The point of Satan Mode is that it doesn't lock the /// down to the ][ at
all. You get the 2 MHz CPU, all the RAM, all the video modes, everything.
But you can still run Apple ][ software.

One of this year's Kfest videos shows Satan Mode in action.

-uso.
Patrick Schaefer
2017-08-07 09:25:32 UTC
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Post by Steve Nickolas
One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted
directly into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the
system into ][ mode.
In the '80s Saturn/Titan offered the III plus II package which allowed
full emulation of an Apple II with 16k card or 128k Saturn card in slot
0. Later, a III plus IIe version appeared with full IIe emulation
including DHires.


The hardware part of the III plus II provides a 16k (or 128 k) RAM board
mapped into $D000..FFFF that is available to the user and a Game Port
socket with paddles, pushbutton inputs and AN outputs. User strobe is
missing, but the signal is there so it is a one-wire mod.

Rob's schematic is still here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w08vxexif9lj47m/Titan3plus2_Schematic.pdf?dl=0

The rest is software. So the III plus II boot disk is able to load FP
into one of the Apple III's RAM banks and set up graphic modes as
required. All that should be feasible without having the HW board installed.



Patrick
Chris Zuhars
2017-08-07 12:17:06 UTC
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Post by Patrick Schaefer
Post by Steve Nickolas
One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted
directly into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the
system into ][ mode.
In the '80s Saturn/Titan offered the III plus II package which allowed
full emulation of an Apple II with 16k card or 128k Saturn card in slot
0. Later, a III plus IIe version appeared with full IIe emulation
including DHires.
The hardware part of the III plus II provides a 16k (or 128 k) RAM board
mapped into $D000..FFFF that is available to the user and a Game Port
socket with paddles, pushbutton inputs and AN outputs. User strobe is
missing, but the signal is there so it is a one-wire mod.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w08vxexif9lj47m/Titan3plus2_Schematic.pdf?dl=0
The rest is software. So the III plus II boot disk is able to load FP
into one of the Apple III's RAM banks and set up graphic modes as
required. All that should be feasible without having the HW board installed.
Patrick
I've got a /// Plus IIe card which is the bee's knees. I haven't thought about what the boot disk software could do on its own. Awesome.

As a side, I often wondered if a ROM replacement on the IIe board would offer Enhanced IIe capability, including MouseText and other Enhanced features. I need to look at my board more.

I need to go watch that KFest video. I'd heard of Satan mode, but I thought it was just for II+ capability.

Chris Z
Patrick Schaefer
2017-08-07 19:19:06 UTC
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Post by Chris Zuhars
As a side, I often wondered if a ROM replacement on the IIe board
would offer Enhanced IIe capability, including MouseText and other
Enhanced features. I need to look at my board more.
The ROM is on your disk, not on your board. The III plus II-board
consists a 16k (language) card or a 128k Saturn card plus an emulation
of the game port. The extension board (with the cable going to the video
state prom socket) emulates the IIe MMU and uses the memory on the 3p2
board as AUX memory for the emulated IIe.

The emulated II / IIe's ROM is made up from Apple III RAM which is
loaded from the startup disk.


So someone needs to have a closer look on the III plus II disk. Not II
plus IIe, because this needs the MMU emulation in hardware. Maybe this
is a job for Antoine ;-) ?


Patrick
Rob Justice
2017-08-08 00:30:46 UTC
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I'd think the ///plus// disk would not differ two much from the original Apple II emulation disk. There is some information of the disk layout in these articles from Softalk. They may be useful to help better understand the emulation disk.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/391444/Vintage/Magazines/Softalk/articles/softalk-1983-aug-sep-hot-rod-iii-reduced.pdf
(these are linked from a scan of them by Paul Hagstrom, thanks Paul)

/Rob

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