Discussion:
Apple II+ Project
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Bobbi
2017-10-07 01:45:35 UTC
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Looks like I just adopted a new project machine - an Apple II+

It looks like a 1980 model. The power supply is silver which is unusual.

Any idea what the mystery card is in slot #4? The language card in slot #0 is some strangle clone version I have not seen before.

Link: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/263244626967

Hopefully I can get this machine working. I think it comes with a Disk II as well (seller refers to a 'hard drive' but I suspect Disk II).
James Davis
2017-10-07 02:04:48 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Looks like I just adopted a new project machine - an Apple II+
It looks like a 1980 model. The power supply is silver which is unusual.
Any idea what the mystery card is in slot #4? The language card in slot #0 is some strangle clone version I have not seen before.
Link: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/263244626967
Hopefully I can get this machine working. I think it comes with a Disk II as well (seller refers to a 'hard drive' but I suspect Disk II).
Reminds me of a sound or speech recognition card I saw once.
Bobbi
2017-10-07 02:11:01 UTC
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Seems to have more passive components on it than anything else, including what looks like a 3.5mm phono socket. Doesn't seem to have enough logic on it to do very much ... could be a game controller of some sort maybe?
James Davis
2017-10-07 02:22:46 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Seems to have more passive components on it than anything else, including what looks like a 3.5mm phono socket. Doesn't seem to have enough logic on it to do very much ... could be a game controller of some sort maybe?
The placement of the 3.5mm jack is just about identical to the one on my Lis'ner 1000 card. That is why I thought it might be something like that. But there are a lot more electronics on the L1K.

Someone posted about a similar looking card just a few months ago, asking the same thing--"What is it?" You should look it up. Got to go eat supper. Buy.
Bobbi
2017-10-07 03:13:15 UTC
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An old thread I found suggests it may be for Morse code signalling with ham radio gear.
Bobbi
2017-10-07 18:05:00 UTC
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Something else interesting that I notice from the (one) photo I have of the internals. This seems to be an old-ish mainboard, maybe revision 4? It is certainly not rev 7.

There seems to be some sort of modification to IC at C2 (normally 74S195), which seems to be socketed with long pins (hard to see in pic.) Also there is a four pin header just 'south' of this device, which is absent on rev 7 boards (just have solder pads instead.) 75S195 is a four bit shift register. I will consult the Ref Manual and see if it mentions the four pin header.

Any ideas about this apparent mod?
James Davis
2017-10-07 23:23:13 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Something else interesting that I notice from the (one) photo I have of the internals. This seems to be an old-ish mainboard, maybe revision 4? It is certainly not rev 7.
There seems to be some sort of modification to IC at C2 (normally 74S195), which seems to be socketed with long pins (hard to see in pic.) Also there is a four pin header just 'south' of this device, which is absent on rev 7 boards (just have solder pads instead.) 75S195 is a four bit shift register. I will consult the Ref Manual and see if it mentions the four pin header.
Any ideas about this apparent mod?
Look in the Red Book if it is an older motherboard.
Bobbi
2017-10-08 04:07:52 UTC
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Did a bit more research. Seems it is a rev 7 board (pre-RFI). The RFI board came in mid 1981. So it quite an early II+.
James Davis
2017-10-08 06:09:56 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Did a bit more research. Seems it is a rev 7 board (pre-RFI). The RFI board came in mid 1981. So it quite an early II+.
The photo on ebay is gone, bidding is over. Did you buy it? Do you still have the photo?
Bobbi
2017-10-08 21:09:01 UTC
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Yes I bought it ... and I still have the photo. Should have the machine this week I hope!
James Davis
2017-10-09 01:56:49 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Yes I bought it ... and I still have the photo. Should have the machine this week I hope!
Bobbi,

Good for you! Have fun with it.

James Davis
Bobbi
2017-10-09 12:34:40 UTC
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I will probably be posting questions and observations here :)
Bobbi
2017-10-12 23:11:12 UTC
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The Apple II+ arrived today and I have had a chance to play with it a bit. The good news is that it is working (much to my surprise.) It passes the Apple II+ Dealer Diagnostics with flying colours.

As I suspected, it is quite an early II+ serial A2S2-87816, mainboard dated 8028, and it has some quite interesting features. I snapped a few pics ...

Mainboard / baseplate pic: Loading Image...

1) Power Supply is silver, not gold, with a different shaped switch to usual. PSU serial is 10186.

2) Baseplate is painted grey on the inside as well as the outside.

3) Keyboard is Datanetics, with a separate encoder board. This seems to be the last 'pre-RFI' keyboard, according to Mike Willegal's page. Manufacture date is June 20 1980.
Pics: Loading Image...
Loading Image...

4) Main board is revision 7, pre-RFI. Date code 8028.

5) Language card is some no-name clone, it seems.
Pic: Loading Image...

6) There is a strange mod to the 74LS195 at board location C2. It is mounted on a socket with long pins, about one inch above the board. Anyone have any idea why this was done?
Pic: Loading Image...

7) There is a mystery card, with just a couple of small 74xx type devices and a 3.5mm jack.
Pic: Loading Image...

Issues I need to fix:

1) The power switch is broken (fortunately failed in the On position)

2) Something seems to be wrong with the colour burst killer circuit. Seems the colour burst is always present so text mode is very fringe-y. Any ideas how to adjust this?
Jorge
2017-10-12 23:30:43 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
6) There is a strange mod to the 74LS195 at board location C2. It is mounted on a socket with long pins, about one inch above the board. Anyone have any idea why this was done?
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152610-CzUurZrS.jpg
That's most likely because it has had a Sup'r terminal 80 columns card installed. You had to lift that chip @C2 and connect a PCB in its place. The PCB had wire wrap pins that are much wider than the IC pins so the IC socket on the MLB was damaged. When they removed the Sup'r terminal and put the IC back in its place it did not make good contact and the easier fix for that was to put again a wirewap socket and plug the IC into it.
James Davis
2017-10-13 06:20:00 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
6) There is a strange mod to the 74LS195 at board location C2. It is mounted on a socket with long pins, about one inch above the board. Anyone have any idea why this was done?
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152610-CzUurZrS.jpg
Bobbi,

If the chip & socket are ever in the way of something, the wire-wrap tines can be shortened (cut) or the original socket can be replaced.
Jorge
2017-10-12 23:32:50 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
1) The power switch is broken (fortunately failed in the On position)
I'm green of envy... you won't want to sell me that power supply ? :-)
Bobbi
2017-10-12 23:37:39 UTC
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The Sup'R Terminal makes total sense to explain the weird socket at C2. Pity I didn't get the Sup'R Terminal card as well.
Jorge
2017-10-12 23:42:22 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
The Sup'R Terminal makes total sense to explain the weird socket at C2. Pity I didn't get the Sup'R Terminal card as well.
No no, it's very likely the slowest 80 columns card there is. It's painful. Get a videx videoterm instead.
Anthony Ortiz
2017-10-12 23:37:10 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
The Apple II+ arrived today and I have had a chance to play with it a bit. The good news is that it is working (much to my surprise.) It passes the Apple II+ Dealer Diagnostics with flying colours.
As I suspected, it is quite an early II+ serial A2S2-87816, mainboard dated 8028, and it has some quite interesting features. I snapped a few pics ...
Mainboard / baseplate pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_163358-D9GkqlPn.jpg
1) Power Supply is silver, not gold, with a different shaped switch to usual. PSU serial is 10186.
2) Baseplate is painted grey on the inside as well as the outside.
3) Keyboard is Datanetics, with a separate encoder board. This seems to be the last 'pre-RFI' keyboard, according to Mike Willegal's page. Manufacture date is June 20 1980.
Pics: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_163252-jjdFTW5c.jpg
http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_163304-iniuJ0z9.jpg
4) Main board is revision 7, pre-RFI. Date code 8028.
5) Language card is some no-name clone, it seems.
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152531-DBTsah6G.jpg
6) There is a strange mod to the 74LS195 at board location C2. It is mounted on a socket with long pins, about one inch above the board. Anyone have any idea why this was done?
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152610-CzUurZrS.jpg
7) There is a mystery card, with just a couple of small 74xx type devices and a 3.5mm jack.
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152708-ziZPervf.jpg
1) The power switch is broken (fortunately failed in the On position)
2) Something seems to be wrong with the colour burst killer circuit. Seems the colour burst is always present so text mode is very fringe-y. Any ideas how to adjust this?
You might want to get a new power supply from reactive micro.
Jorge
2017-10-12 23:38:18 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
7) There is a mystery card, with just a couple of small 74xx type devices and a 3.5mm jack.
Pic: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171012_152708-ziZPervf.jpg
All I can say is that the black adjustable/potentiometer is spanish, and you can't get better adjustables than that. Nowhere in the world. The spanish PIHERs are simply the best!
Bobbi
2017-10-12 23:45:09 UTC
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The three devices on the mystery card are as follows:

1) 74L377 octal D flip-flop. Bus buffer I guess.

2) 386N-4 audio amplifier

3) 16 DIL chip with no markings!! (super secret).

The jack is wired to the amplifier. There is also a single transistor and a bunch of passive LCR components.

It is some kind of audio output card, but it doesn't have an AY-3-xxxx device.
Bobbi
2017-10-12 23:51:51 UTC
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Mystery card connects to following bus pins only:
GND
-12V (I think)
Device Select'
D0-D7
-12V

The data lines D0-D8 and Device Select' go to the 74LS377, where they are latched and thence to the unmarked chip. Not sure if any of that helps anyone work out what this thing may do ...
Bobbi
2017-10-13 00:09:22 UTC
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Mystery card looks a bit like a S.A.M. (Software Automatic Mouth) card:
https://blog.juicylizard.com/?p=258

Maybe?
Jorge
2017-10-13 00:11:24 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
https://blog.juicylizard.com/?p=258
Maybe?
Yes... then it's a DAC?
Bobbi
2017-10-13 00:14:14 UTC
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Yes it is a simple DAC I think.
Bobbi
2017-10-13 00:35:34 UTC
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OK, if I plug it in slot 5 I can make it make noises by poking to $C0D0 (49360). It is an eight bit DAC, seemingly compatible with S.A.M.
Jorge
2017-10-13 00:09:32 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
The data lines D0-D8 and Device Select' go to the 74LS377, where they are latched and thence to the unmarked chip. Not sure if any of that helps anyone work out what this thing may do ...
Perhaps the super secret chip is a DTMF generator?
Scott Alfter
2017-10-16 17:05:29 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
1) Power Supply is silver, not gold, with a different shaped switch to
usual. PSU serial is 10186.
That power supply looks like the one that was installed in my IIe when it
shipped. Perhaps yours isn't original, but a replacement for an earlier
power supply that went bad. Then again, it's also possible that this type
of power supply originated with the II+ at some point in its production life
and continued to be used with the IIe when it came along.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Bobbi
2017-10-16 17:14:51 UTC
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I saw a picture of another II+ with serial number a couple hundred earlier than mine and it also had a silver power supply (with serial number 1000 later than mine - go figure!). It seems Apple had a bunch of silver supplies around that time for some reason.
Bobbi
2017-10-21 22:22:09 UTC
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I successfully removed the wirewrap socket at MLB location C2, cleaned up the IC with nail board, reinserted it and system still works :) It seems the socket wasn't really damaged. I have no idea why previous owner left the wirewrap socket in there, but it is better without it!
Michael J. Mahon
2017-10-22 02:56:17 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
I successfully removed the wirewrap socket at MLB location C2, cleaned up
the IC with nail board, reinserted it and system still works :) It seems
the socket wasn't really damaged. I have no idea why previous owner left
the wirewrap socket in there, but it is better without it!
Well done!
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
James Davis
2017-10-07 02:09:09 UTC
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Post by Bobbi
Looks like I just adopted a new project machine - an Apple II+
It looks like a 1980 model. The power supply is silver which is unusual.
Any idea what the mystery card is in slot #4? The language card in slot #0 is some strangle clone version I have not seen before.
Link: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/263244626967
Hopefully I can get this machine working. I think it comes with a Disk II as well (seller refers to a 'hard drive' but I suspect Disk II).
My original 1976~7 Apple II Plus #675 had a aluminium power supply box, IIRC.
Jorge
2017-10-13 00:14:01 UTC
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follow the traces to the DAC and see if it would match an AD558...
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