Discussion:
CP/M (Z80) specific software for Apple II?
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d***@gmail.com
2012-08-31 04:49:29 UTC
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Hi,
The latest version of AppleWin has emulation for Microsoft CP/M SoftCard, which is very nice addition.
So far I managed to find and boot CP/M and it works fine. The GBASIC seems to support the Apple II graphics modes and probably other Apple II specific features.

I remember having back in 1992 a CP/M SoftCard clone but I abandonned it fast and sold it, because most of the software I had was Word Processors and DataBases in text modes. I remember business used the Z80 card a lot and mostly ignored the 6502 software. The Apple II owners instead of buying new computer, bought Z80 card and used the business software for CP/M.

So my question is - is there any CP/M (Z80) software that utilizes the Apple II sound, graphics and input capabilities (Joystick, Tape). I would love to see the games/applications that I wasn't able to run until now, because they required Z80. I know using Apple II features makes the specific CP/M software unusable on other CP/M configurations, because CP/M used text terminal for portability, but still there are may be some software written for this combination, except the MBASIC and GBASIC available on the CPM boot disk.

P.S. Video of me running CP/M -

Michael J. Mahon
2012-08-31 18:12:09 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
The latest version of AppleWin has emulation for Microsoft CP/M SoftCard,
which is very nice addition.
So far I managed to find and boot CP/M and it works fine. The GBASIC
seems to support the Apple II graphics modes and probably other Apple II specific features.
I remember having back in 1992 a CP/M SoftCard clone but I abandonned it
fast and sold it, because most of the software I had was Word Processors
and DataBases in text modes. I remember business used the Z80 card a lot
and mostly ignored the 6502 software. The Apple II owners instead of
buying new computer, bought Z80 card and used the business software for CP/M.
In fact, the Apple II with a Softcard became the most popular platform for
running CP/M!
Post by d***@gmail.com
So my question is - is there any CP/M (Z80) software that utilizes the
Apple II sound, graphics and input capabilities (Joystick, Tape). I would
love to see the games/applications that I wasn't able to run until now,
because they required Z80. I know using Apple II features makes the
specific CP/M software unusable on other CP/M configurations, because
CP/M used text terminal for portability, but still there are may be some
software written for this combination, except the MBASIC and GBASIC
available on the CPM boot disk.
Except for text-oriented games, I think you'll find that the CP/M landscape
was not arcade oriented. ;-)

Since the Apple II was the only widely sold CP/M platform with game
graphics capabilities, and since non-CP/M Apples were a much larger market,
there was no incentive to develop graphical games for the Apple that
depended on the Softcard. In addition, the 6502 was faster than the
Softcard Z80.
Post by d***@gmail.com
P.S. Video of me running CP/M - http://youtu.be/ulQ4CWBfR_g
---
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon
Michael Black
2012-08-31 18:40:05 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
Since the Apple II was the only widely sold CP/M platform with game
graphics capabilities, and since non-CP/M Apples were a much larger market,
there was no incentive to develop graphical games for the Apple that
depended on the Softcard. In addition, the 6502 was faster than the
Softcard Z80.
Also, unless things were passed to the 6502 (and I really don't know the
extent of that), much of those things were in the monitor, which made them
so easy to use. If the Z80 started doing such things, someone would have
to write the code, not difficult, but just another thing that had to be
done.

One might wonder to what extent those things would have been used in the
Apple II if the monitor wasn't there to deal with them. It was like a
library of code already there.

In other small computers of that vintage, people would often try to make
use of what was in the pretty much always Microsoft BASIC in ROM, lots in
there that would mean not having to reinvent the wheel, yet often not
useful because it wasn't intended a "library functions" so there'd be code
that got in the way, or it wasn't a subroutine so there was no easy way to
get back to your own code.

Michael
Egan Ford
2012-08-31 19:14:48 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
In fact, the Apple II with a Softcard became the most popular platform for
running CP/M!
Do you have any data to back that up? I am not disputing the claim, I
am just interested in the CP/M market. When you say most popular, you
mean, e.g. Apple + CP/M card is 10% with #2 at 9%, as apposed to
Apple/CP/M at > 50%?

Thanks.
Michael J. Mahon
2012-08-31 21:28:21 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
In fact, the Apple II with a Softcard became the most popular platform for
running CP/M!
Do you have any data to back that up? I am not disputing the claim, I am
just interested in the CP/M market. When you say most popular, you mean,
e.g. Apple + CP/M card is 10% with #2 at 9%, as apposed to Apple/CP/M at > 50%?
Thanks.
I don't have specific data unfortunately. I heard it in the late 80s, and
presumed it was based on software sales figures (Apple II CP/M disks had a
unique format among CP/M machines).

If we had the volume of Softcards, that would pretty well seal it.

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon
d***@gmail.com
2012-09-01 04:36:31 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael J. Mahon
In fact, the Apple II with a Softcard became the most popular platform for
running CP/M!
Do you have any data to back that up? I am not disputing the claim, I am
just interested in the CP/M market. When you say most popular, you mean,
e.g. Apple + CP/M card is 10% with #2 at 9%, as apposed to Apple/CP/M at > 50%?
Thanks.
I don't have specific data unfortunately. I heard it in the late 80s, and
presumed it was based on software sales figures (Apple II CP/M disks had a
unique format among CP/M machines).
If we had the volume of Softcards, that would pretty well seal it.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-80_SoftCard

"It was an immediate success; 5,000 cards, a large number given the microcomputer market at the time, were purchased in the initial three months at $349 each, and the card sold well for several years. The SoftCard was the single most popular platform to run CP/M.[3] As Steve Ballmer stated during the Microsoft Surface reveal, the SoftCard was Microsoft's number one revenue source in 1980."

But it's a real shame that no software utilizes the Z80 with the Apple II features. I saw some Amstrad CP/M specific software.
Roy Miller
2012-10-12 05:04:46 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
The latest version of AppleWin has emulation for Microsoft CP/M SoftCard, which is very nice addition.
So far I managed to find and boot CP/M and it works fine. The GBASIC seems to support the Apple II graphics modes and probably other Apple II specific features.
I remember having back in 1992 a CP/M SoftCard clone but I abandonned it fast and sold it, because most of the software I had was Word Processors and DataBases in text modes. I remember business used the Z80 card a lot and mostly ignored the 6502 software. The Apple II owners instead of buying new computer, bought Z80 card and used the business software for CP/M.
So my question is - is there any CP/M (Z80) software that utilizes the Apple II sound, graphics and input capabilities (Joystick, Tape). I would love to see the games/applications that I wasn't able to run until now, because they required Z80. I know using Apple II features makes the specific CP/M software unusable on other CP/M configurations, because CP/M used text terminal for portability, but still there are may be some software written for this combination, except the MBASIC and GBASIC available on the CPM boot disk.
P.S. Video of me running CP/M - http://youtu.be/ulQ4CWBfR_g
The Coleco ADAM had the same video and sound chip as the Ti 99/4a, pretty close to the MSX standard, with a Z-80 running at 3.58 mhz.

I have the PCPI card which has a Z-80 running at 6 mhz and with it's own 64K of RAM. MUCH faster than the Softcard. It might be possible to run Apple type games from that card. It still uses the Apple's video.
s***@gmail.com
2017-09-06 16:12:53 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
The latest version of AppleWin has emulation for Microsoft CP/M SoftCard, which is very nice addition.
So far I managed to find and boot CP/M and it works fine. The GBASIC seems to support the Apple II graphics modes and probably other Apple II specific features.
I remember having back in 1992 a CP/M SoftCard clone but I abandonned it fast and sold it, because most of the software I had was Word Processors and DataBases in text modes. I remember business used the Z80 card a lot and mostly ignored the 6502 software. The Apple II owners instead of buying new computer, bought Z80 card and used the business software for CP/M.
So my question is - is there any CP/M (Z80) software that utilizes the Apple II sound, graphics and input capabilities (Joystick, Tape). I would love to see the games/applications that I wasn't able to run until now, because they required Z80. I know using Apple II features makes the specific CP/M software unusable on other CP/M configurations, because CP/M used text terminal for portability, but still there are may be some software written for this combination, except the MBASIC and GBASIC available on the CPM boot disk.
P.S. Video of me running CP/M - http://youtu.be/ulQ4CWBfR_g
Generally true, but there is GSX: http://toastytech.com/guis/gsx.html

Also, in 80's I was very angry that there is no GR/HGR graphics in CP/M Turbo 3.0 for CP/M-80 (Apple ][, Pravetz-8M /Z80 4 MHz onboard/ or another CP/M computer), but there was Turtle Graphics in Turbo 3.0 for IBM PC (DOS and CP/M-86). I tried to write one myself, but was too busy with school... Later I found two. They are in Asimov.net, so you can easily try Turbo 3.0 with GR, HGR graphics.
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