Discussion:
Liron card Clone: We need your support
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D Finnigan
2018-02-02 19:34:38 UTC
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Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.

Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!

So let's drum up some support for him. Here is his blog entry:
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/01/31/yellowstone-cloning-the-apple-ii-liron/

If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Anthony Ortiz
2018-02-02 19:43:44 UTC
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Would you post a link to the post with negative reactions? The one I found was 14 likes and a single positive comment.
D Finnigan
2018-02-02 20:24:21 UTC
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Post by Anthony Ortiz
Would you post a link to the post with negative reactions? The one I found
was 14 likes and a single positive comment.
I don't have a link. He just said "the feedback from Facebook" in a comment
to that blog entry today.
awanderin
2018-02-02 23:35:42 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/01/31/yellowstone-cloning-the-apple-ii-liron/
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
Aye, the old Liron and Uni-3.5 combo. I had that setup way back and
loved it for the 800kB of storage, but alas, I sold it after I got my
IIgs in '88, and found that the "dumb" Apple 3.5 drive was so much
faster (on the IIgs). So, I would not be in the market for one of
these. Cool project, though, and his prototype build looks great!


--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-02 23:46:17 UTC
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Post by awanderin
Post by D Finnigan
Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/01/31/yellowstone-cloning-the-apple-ii-liron/
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
Aye, the old Liron and Uni-3.5 combo. I had that setup way back and
loved it for the 800kB of storage, but alas, I sold it after I got my
IIgs in '88, and found that the "dumb" Apple 3.5 drive was so much
faster (on the IIgs). So, I would not be in the market for one of
these. Cool project, though, and his prototype build looks great!
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
Right. It seems like a clone of the Disk 3.5 Controller card would be more
useful--there are *lots* of Apple 3.5 drives.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Steven Hirsch
2018-02-03 15:27:21 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
Right. It seems like a clone of the Disk 3.5 Controller card would be more
useful--there are *lots* of Apple 3.5 drives.
Exactly my feelings. The Unidisk is quite uncommon, while Apple 3.5s continue
to be like Zuccini in August. The sweet spot would seem to be a moderately
priced board for Apple ][ or //e that can handle 800k diskettes in an Apple
disk 3.5.

Regarding Facebook: It's a scourge. Absolutely worthless as a technical
forum. No clue why so many hobbyist groups and vendors are moving there.
Anthony Ortiz
2018-02-03 16:06:15 UTC
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Because Facebook is a lot more popular; it’s specifically a social platform where people go to share thoughts. I was actually surprised to see how much more active the Apple II community is on Facebook than it is here; it seems the newsgroups are for the more hardcore that still remember the whole Usenet concept.
Egan Ford
2018-02-03 16:42:21 UTC
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Post by Anthony Ortiz
Because Facebook is a lot more popular; it’s specifically a social platform where people go to share thoughts. I was actually surprised to see how much more active the Apple II community is on Facebook than it is here; it seems the newsgroups are for the more hardcore that still remember the whole Usenet concept.
And, people want more than just text.

Usenet is also relatively hard for some. The Google Groups UI IMHO is
pretty bad. Most probably do not know how to setup a *thick* client for
NNTP or find NNTP servers. And then there's the lack of good clients
for mobile.

Forum software is closer to the BBS experience than Usenet is (again
IMHO). I think that may be a factor as well for FB gravity.

Lastly, many use FB for other things, so it's their new info hub.

Like others here, I use FB mostly for the A2 group, usually after I
detect a lot of hits from FB to my websites. I jump in to answer
questions and collect feedback. And, because of the size of the FB A2
community I've started to make announcements there as well.

I've been reading Usenet for ~30 years. I hope it never goes away. The
Usenet SNR is very high relative to FB. But that is only because of the
people that remain here and use it.

Thanks for keeping comp.sys.apple2 alive.
Anthony Ortiz
2018-02-03 17:16:47 UTC
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Regarding SNR ratio, you’re so right lol! But I gotta admit, going back through the years I see this newsgroup was a pretty hostile and toxic place. The only reason the SNR is as high as it is is because only a hardcore few still devote themselves to the Apple II and these types are, in general, a lot more technical and less emotionally impulsive.
Antoine Vignau
2018-02-03 17:29:14 UTC
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Same comment as Egan!
Steve Nickolas
2018-02-03 19:25:32 UTC
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Regarding SNR ratio, you’re so right lol! But I gotta admit, going back
through the years I see this newsgroup was a pretty hostile and toxic
place. The only reason the SNR is as high as it is is because only a
hardcore few still devote themselves to the Apple II and these types
are, in general, a lot more technical and less emotionally impulsive.
These days I think the only hostility is when I get a stupid idea and
promote it, LOL... and half the time it's probably earned. :P

The other half of the time, the group eventually comes around ;) (like
with the ProDOS ports)

-uso.
Egan Ford
2018-02-04 00:23:07 UTC
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Post by Steve Nickolas
Post by Anthony Ortiz
Regarding SNR ratio, you’re so right lol! But I gotta admit, going
back through the years I see this newsgroup was a pretty hostile and
toxic place. The only reason the SNR is as high as it is is because
only a hardcore few still devote themselves to the Apple II and these
types are, in general, a lot more technical and less emotionally
impulsive.
These days I think the only hostility is when I get a stupid idea and
promote it, LOL... and half the time it's probably earned. :P
There's passion and then there's just trolling. I'd take passionate
hostility over mindless trolling any day.
awanderin
2018-02-05 05:36:28 UTC
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Post by Steve Nickolas
Post by Anthony Ortiz
Regarding SNR ratio, you’re so right lol! But I gotta admit, going
back through the years I see this newsgroup was a pretty hostile and
toxic place. The only reason the SNR is as high as it is is because
only a hardcore few still devote themselves to the Apple II and
these types are, in general, a lot more technical and less
emotionally impulsive.
These days I think the only hostility is when I get a stupid idea and
promote it, LOL... and half the time it's probably earned. :P
The other half of the time, the group eventually comes around ;) (like
with the ProDOS ports)
-uso.
Back in the 80s and 90s USENET was filled with both excellent discussion
and information, and fusion-reactor-hot flamewars. There were moderated
groups that kept the latter out, and were excellent when they had good
membership. comp.compilers, for example, is still a good moderated
group, but had a much higher active participation 20-30 years ago along
with a lot more regular content.

Most non-moderated groups suffered periodic invasions of trolls as well
as flame-fests between regulars. But overall, the comp.*.apple2 (and
the original comp.sys.apple) have been a decent source of information
and discussion over the years. There was also comp.binaries.apple2, and
in the "good old days" (before the web), it was generally a clean place
where legitimate Apple II software was posted.


--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
Scott Alfter
2018-02-05 23:33:10 UTC
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Post by Steven Hirsch
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Right. It seems like a clone of the Disk 3.5 Controller card would be more
useful--there are *lots* of Apple 3.5 drives.
Exactly my feelings. The Unidisk is quite uncommon, while Apple 3.5s
continue to be like Zuccini in August. The sweet spot would seem to be a
moderately priced board for Apple ][ or //e that can handle 800k diskettes
in an Apple disk 3.5.
From what I've read on the matter, it looks more like he's aiming it at
FloppyEmu owners (or other SmartPort storage devices) who want to use that
device on a IIe or II+ as more than just a 5.25" drive emulator.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-06 01:57:26 UTC
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Post by Scott Alfter
Post by Steven Hirsch
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Right. It seems like a clone of the Disk 3.5 Controller card would be more
useful--there are *lots* of Apple 3.5 drives.
Exactly my feelings. The Unidisk is quite uncommon, while Apple 3.5s
continue to be like Zuccini in August. The sweet spot would seem to be a
moderately priced board for Apple ][ or //e that can handle 800k diskettes
in an Apple disk 3.5.
From what I've read on the matter, it looks more like he's aiming it at
FloppyEmu owners (or other SmartPort storage devices) who want to use that
device on a IIe or II+ as more than just a 5.25" drive emulator.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Still begs the question: are Liron cards hard to find?
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Scott Alfter
2018-02-06 15:27:25 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Scott Alfter
From what I've read on the matter, it looks more like he's aiming it at
FloppyEmu owners (or other SmartPort storage devices) who want to use that
device on a IIe or II+ as more than just a 5.25" drive emulator.
Still begs the question: are Liron cards hard to find?
They seem to be in about the same category of rarity as SCSI cards. FWIW,
I've never had one or even seen one, while I'm sitting on two or three
different SCSI cards.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Scott Alfter
2018-02-06 15:34:18 UTC
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Post by Scott Alfter
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Scott Alfter
From what I've read on the matter, it looks more like he's aiming it at
FloppyEmu owners (or other SmartPort storage devices) who want to use that
device on a IIe or II+ as more than just a 5.25" drive emulator.
Still begs the question: are Liron cards hard to find?
They seem to be in about the same category of rarity as SCSI cards. FWIW,
I've never had one or even seen one, while I'm sitting on two or three
different SCSI cards.
One more thing I forgot to mention: they're going for stupid-high prices on
eBay when they do turn up. I see three on there right now, none for less
than $400.

(Then again, the same search turned up (non-UniDisk) 3.5" drives for $200
and UniDisk 3.5s for $300. The latter are supposed to be as uncommon as the
Liron cards needed to use them in a IIe, but aren't the others supposed to
be common as dirt and cheap as chips?)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
cb meeks
2018-02-06 15:47:53 UTC
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Post by Scott Alfter
One more thing I forgot to mention: they're going for stupid-high prices on
eBay when they do turn up. I see three on there right now, none for less
than $400.
We now live in a world where scalpers think they can get $18K for a stock IIe. Everything is insanely expensive. My first IIe I bought from eBay cost me around $40 IIRC. Those days are gone. :-(
Ianoid
2018-02-06 16:41:10 UTC
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Post by cb meeks
We now live in a world where scalpers think they can get $18K for a stock IIe. Everything is insanely expensive. My first IIe I bought from eBay cost me around $40 IIRC. Those days are gone. :-(
You can still find reasonable Apple //e's now and again on eBay (inflation adjusted, $75 with some cards inside is not too far from $40). The deluded sellers confuse the rest of the uninformed sellers and it sets upward pricing momentum that may not be validated by actual sales.

Don't confuse asking prices with closed sales.

The Liron cards are sufficiently expensive that a new device with additional features could be priced at $80-$100 and still sell a few hundred units eventually.
cb meeks
2018-02-06 16:45:25 UTC
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Post by Ianoid
Post by cb meeks
We now live in a world where scalpers think they can get $18K for a stock IIe. Everything is insanely expensive. My first IIe I bought from eBay cost me around $40 IIRC. Those days are gone. :-(
You can still find reasonable Apple //e's now and again on eBay (inflation adjusted, $75 with some cards inside is not too far from $40). The deluded sellers confuse the rest of the uninformed sellers and it sets upward pricing momentum that may not be validated by actual sales.
I wasn't clear. That's $40 shipped.
Post by Ianoid
Don't confuse asking prices with closed sales.
Oh, I never do. Having almost 80 computers I've bought off eBay over the years, I have a pretty good idea what they are actually "worth". :-)
James Keim
2018-02-06 19:05:41 UTC
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Post by Scott Alfter
Post by Steven Hirsch
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Right. It seems like a clone of the Disk 3.5 Controller card would be more
useful--there are *lots* of Apple 3.5 drives.
Exactly my feelings. The Unidisk is quite uncommon, while Apple 3.5s
continue to be like Zuccini in August. The sweet spot would seem to be a
moderately priced board for Apple ][ or //e that can handle 800k diskettes
in an Apple disk 3.5.
From what I've read on the matter, it looks more like he's aiming it at
FloppyEmu owners (or other SmartPort storage devices) who want to use that
device on a IIe or II+ as more than just a 5.25" drive emulator.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Scott is correct. My understanding is that this isn't about increasing the adoption or support of UniDisk drives. It is specifically about supporting some of the newer SmartPort devices available today. The SmartPort is a fairly flexible connector but suffers from not be available universally across the ][ line. The Apple II Disk 3.5 Controller Card is definitely more compatible and faster (I have one) and 1.40 MB compatibility is gravy. But honestly, I only ever used that for MS-DOS support when that was my best way of transferring files.

Today, a Liron card makes more sense, IMHO. Being able to use something like the Floppy Emu, SDISK II, or SDFloppy II across my //c+, IIgs, and //e makes a lot more sense. The chance that it might have of supporting other disk controller cards is interesting but probably less broadly useful that bringing the SmartPort to II+ and //e systems.
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-02 23:44:12 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/01/31/yellowstone-cloning-the-apple-ii-liron/
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
Curious. I always thought that Liron cards were more plentiful than UniDisk
3.5's.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
cb meeks
2018-02-03 01:42:42 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
Seriously....when are people going to give up on Facebook. It's such a garbage site.
STYNX
2018-02-03 09:20:12 UTC
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Post by cb meeks
Post by D Finnigan
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
Seriously....when are people going to give up on Facebook. It's such a garbage site.
I support your claim 100%.

I go onto FB only for the Apple II related things since so many people are using FB exclusively now. If the A2 people were not active there, I would never have had the need to register there. Its filled with a lot of nice people but there are a**holes as well. I did never have a problem on AF, here or anywhere else than FB. There are people on FB who think that the A2 community is a "free for all" -" all you can eat buffet" where you grab anything you can and give nothing back.

-Jonas
mdj
2018-02-05 08:28:30 UTC
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Post by STYNX
Post by cb meeks
Seriously....when are people going to give up on Facebook. It's such a garbage site.
I support your claim 100%.
I agree with this too, more or less - and I started the Apple II FB group!

As a dedicated forum it isn't great, but the reality is FB itself has the public mind share and people use it to stay in contact with diverse peoples and for that it works well. As always I feel that *this* is the best place for in-depth technical discussions and long may it be so.

Matt
cb meeks
2018-02-05 13:37:04 UTC
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Post by mdj
As a dedicated forum it isn't great, but the reality is FB itself has the public mind share and people use it to stay in contact with diverse peoples and for that it works well.
That's what FB wants everyone to believe. That you need them to "stay in touch". I have a FB account that I created years ago. I just keep it active to help prevent identity trolls from using it. But I never use it.

The truth is, I communicate with a wide range of people every single day and not one time does it involve FB. Am I missing out on some stuff? Probably. But I would argue that the hardcore FB people are also missing out.
James Davis
2018-02-04 19:43:07 UTC
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Post by cb meeks
Post by D Finnigan
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
Seriously....when are people going to give up on Facebook. It's such a garbage site.
I gave up on Facebook shortly after they blocked my account: after I spent hours filling in my profile info. I have since learned that they blocked it for misrepresenting myself: basically calling me a liar, just because they could not verify my (probably {secret} military) history. Facebook is run by a bunch of Asses!
STYNX
2018-02-03 22:32:31 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.
...
Ok, back to the main topic :-)

I offered Steve some of my UDC cards (Antoine might remember selling them to me) for development. My hope for a later version of the Yellowstone to be a complete controller and emulator solution. A card where I can connect physical 5.25" and 3.5" Drives and emulate them from the controller as well. My A2s are mostly fully populated without having a dedicated Floppy controller. I have to remove the CFFA to add a controller...

Anyways, I think that Steve is on the right way as soon as he replaces the onboard eprom with a SD card slot :-)

-Jonas
STYNX
2018-02-04 08:21:47 UTC
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My hopes for the Yellowstone may be a bit big but just take it as what my perfect Apple II disk interface hardware would be.

Here I go:

Expectations/Hopes for the first release:
- The Yellowstone will be able to read and write Apple II disk formats in 3.5“ and 5.25“ in double density (sigle sided & double sided).
- It behaves the same as the Liron card and disk II card.
- there is no software or the need to configure the card.
- 2x Disk II and 2x 3.5“ are supported at max.
- The card will need to sit in slot 6 for 5.25“ support and map 3.5“ floppies as smartport devices to slot 5.
- The Yellowstone replaces the Disk II and Liron Cards and combines them into one card.

Hopes for the future (some may not be possible):
- The Yellowstone will have a SD card and allow to mount smartport images in parallel to the physical drives.
- The files on the SD card will be fully compatible with the floppyEmu.
- The firmware allows for a Apple II program to manage settings and mounted images.
- FloppyEmu functionality is included in the FPGA and allows 5.25“ floppy emulation.
- Disk archiving function with support of timed images onto SD card (EDD/EDF and/or other).
- Write back to real floppy function for disk images from SD card.
- surface analysis of a disk to test for weak bits or problematic regions
- floppy drive test for checking of the quality of the drive.
- It will support standard 34pin floppy drives and allow access to these.
- A simple UART terminal for debugging/status information.
- USB interface for „stand-alone“ function with a PC for access to the floppies on modern hardware. (Needs additional 12V PSU, older Disk II not supported)

:-)

-Jonas
Nick Westgate
2018-02-04 21:56:40 UTC
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You forgot to wish for .WOZ support. ; - )

Cheers,
Nick.
D Finnigan
2018-02-04 19:39:15 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
Thanks to everyone who posted a comment! :-)
I am Rob
2018-02-06 02:25:16 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Post by D Finnigan
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
Thanks to everyone who posted a comment! :-)
AAAAANNNNNDDDDDD!!!!!!

What did you get out of the feedback? Negativity or Positivity?
SndHack
2018-02-05 00:53:42 UTC
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Post by D Finnigan
Steve at Big Mess o' Wires is working on a Liron card clone called
Yellowstone. He has a working prototype. It works with the UniDisk 3.5"
drive.
Sadly, he posted about it on Facebook and got NEGATIVE feedback so he's not
sure he'll go through with it. That would be too bad!
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/01/31/yellowstone-cloning-the-apple-ii-liron/
If you think a Liron clone would be something you'd buy, post a comment on
that blog saying so! Let's make this happen.
--
]DF$
http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
BMOW is my most favorite hardware site for the Apple II. I bought the floppy emulator + case, and have been very happy. If he produces a Liron clone I would buy it just to support him, I don't even have a Unidisk drive.

As for the other derogatory Facebook comments, I agree. I got banned from the two major FB A2 groups for daring to question the copyright status of some posted pdfs. Apparently healthy discussion/debate is not permitted over there, no big loss for me.
Henry Pedro
2018-02-05 13:38:08 UTC
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It wasn't all negative feedback.
My beef was that supporting only the Unidisk 3.5 is silly because those drives are very rare and expensive.
If someone is going through the effort to clone a card with technology that can offer more than one function (for instance, he suggested a dual purpose Liron / Disk II controller) why not then offer Apple 3.5" drive support and make the Yellowstone a true smart port device so that it can support Smart Port devices, the Unidisk, the Apple 3.5" (and the Disk II, if desired).
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-05 15:47:31 UTC
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Post by Henry Pedro
It wasn't all negative feedback.
My beef was that supporting only the Unidisk 3.5 is silly because those
drives are very rare and expensive.
If someone is going through the effort to clone a card with technology
that can offer more than one function (for instance, he suggested a dual
purpose Liron / Disk II controller) why not then offer Apple 3.5" drive
support and make the Yellowstone a true smart port device so that it can
support Smart Port devices, the Unidisk, the Apple 3.5" (and the Disk II, if desired).
Bingo.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
James Davis
2018-02-06 03:16:55 UTC
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Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Henry Pedro
It wasn't all negative feedback.
My beef was that supporting only the Unidisk 3.5 is silly because those
drives are very rare and expensive.
If someone is going through the effort to clone a card with technology
that can offer more than one function (for instance, he suggested a dual
purpose Liron / Disk II controller) why not then offer Apple 3.5" drive
support and make the Yellowstone a true smart port device so that it can
support Smart Port devices, the Unidisk, the Apple 3.5" (and the Disk II, if desired).
Bingo.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Ditto!
MG
2018-02-06 02:31:59 UTC
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Post by Henry Pedro
It wasn't all negative feedback.
My beef was that supporting only the Unidisk 3.5 is silly because those drives are very rare and expensive.
If someone is going through the effort to clone a card with technology that can offer more than one function (for instance, he suggested a dual purpose Liron / Disk II controller) why not then offer Apple 3.5" drive support and make the Yellowstone a true smart port device so that it can support Smart Port devices, the Unidisk, the Apple 3.5" (and the Disk II, if desired).
I can think of a few reasons.

* Because he sells a device that interfaces with the SmartPort of a Liron card already. If I understand correctly, the main goal is to provide the FloppyEmu's large volumes to more //e users, not to control floppy drives.

* Because the IWM is a much simpler chip to clone, it is just the well-known Disk II logic with a few extra functions to support more asynchronous operation.

* Because the level of effort to clone a 3.5" controller for "dumb" drives is much higher. To read a 3.5" drive with a 1 MHz 6502 you either have to have to have a large-fish buffer to stuff bytes into (i.e. the MIG+SRAM on the IIc Plus) or you have to have a fast enough CPU (i.e. the IIgs or SuperDrive card).

An obvious 3.5 clone target might be the Videx UDC... but that won't get you the FloppyEmu's 32MB volumes since it doesn't do the SmartPort bus at all.

Finally, the level of effort to clone something like the SuperDrive controller is probably an order of magnitude more than cloning the Liron card.

Everything else is a new design.

My $0.02 anyway.

MG
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