Discussion:
[Hardware,Clock] ThunderClock Plus - Parts List, Layout, Schematics
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Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
2016-07-08 16:28:58 UTC
Permalink
I guess I finally have enough motivation to start digging into hardware. :-)

I eventually want to rebuild a modern ThunderClock Plus so I've started a repository here:

Apple 2 Hardware Disassembly Project: ThunderClock Plus
https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_thunderclock


Right now it has:

1. Parts List (incomplete)
2. Layout (done)
3. Schematics (not started -- a full blown schematic is a long term goal.)

i.e. Here is the layout:
(Sorry, I haven't spent much time optimizing the Layout down to 74 columns.)

_______________________________________________________________________
| B2 B1 C8 SW1 ThunderClock Plus |
|R12 R13 Q4 Y1 C7 C4 Q1 |
| D2 1990C CD4050 74LS174 74LS08 74LS132 R1 |A
| Q3 Q2 R3 R2 |
| R4 |
| R11 R7 R5 Sw2 |
| |
| D1 74LS74 74LS109 74LS126 2708 C3 74LS27 |B
| R10 R9 R8 R6 C2 |
| C6 C5 C1 CX |
___________________________________________ ___|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
1 25


A couple of questions remain:

What is Y1 ?
What is CX ?
What is D1 ?
What is D2 ?
What is Q2 ?
What is Q4 ?

Does anyone have pictures of their ThunderClock Plus to help clarify?

There was this thread back in 2004:

America and Canada (was Re: Installing Panther on B/W G3)
* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/Thunderclock$20Battery$20holder/comp.sys.apple2/f3-ww5WBJOo/hQ6Qxed9hx8J


I've tried cleaning mine up with IPA (No, not the beer but IsoPropyl Alcohol :-) and have gotten some of the green corrosion around 74LS109 and 74LS126 cleaned up but I'm still uneasy doing a "smoke test" until I know:

* is the corrosion safe? (I'm concerned about shorting out the pins.)
* is CX is required?

TIA
Michael
Michael J. Mahon
2016-07-09 00:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
I guess I finally have enough motivation to start digging into hardware. :-)
Apple 2 Hardware Disassembly Project: ThunderClock Plus
https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_thunderclock
1. Parts List (incomplete)
2. Layout (done)
3. Schematics (not started -- a full blown schematic is a long term goal.)
(Sorry, I haven't spent much time optimizing the Layout down to 74 columns.)
_______________________________________________________________________
| B2 B1 C8 SW1 ThunderClock Plus |
|R12 R13 Q4 Y1 C7 C4 Q1 |
| D2 1990C CD4050 74LS174 74LS08 74LS132 R1 |A
| Q3 Q2 R3 R2 |
| R4 |
| R11 R7 R5 Sw2 |
| |
| D1 74LS74 74LS109 74LS126 2708 C3 74LS27 |B
| R10 R9 R8 R6 C2 |
| C6 C5 C1 CX |
___________________________________________ ___|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
1 25
What is Y1 ?
What is CX ?
What is D1 ?
What is D2 ?
What is Q2 ?
What is Q4 ?
Does anyone have pictures of their ThunderClock Plus to help clarify?
America and Canada (was Re: Installing Panther on B/W G3)
*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/Thunderclock$20Battery$20holder/comp.sys.apple2/f3-ww5WBJOo/hQ6Qxed9hx8J
I've tried cleaning mine up with IPA (No, not the beer but IsoPropyl
Alcohol :-) and have gotten some of the green corrosion around 74LS109
* is the corrosion safe? (I'm concerned about shorting out the pins.)
If all the corrosion is removed and there are no obvious gaps in the
traces, it should be fine.
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
* is CX is required?
TIA
Michael
Without looking at a ThunderClock, but applying standard component
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Y1 ?
A 32768Hz crystal
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is CX ?
A trimmer capacitor, likely 3-10pF. It's adjusted to make the clock
neither fast nor slow.
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is D1 ?
What is D2 ?
Two silicon diodes, typically "signal" diodes, not "power" diodes, used to
isolate the battery power from the system power
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Q2 ?
What is Q4 ?
Two transistors, which should be labeled on the flat side of their cases

Although it's always fun to do a project like this, wouldn't the "No Slot
Clock" (still widely available) be a more convenient clock--or do you
really need clock interrupts?
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
2016-07-09 06:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Without looking at a ThunderClock, but applying standard component
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Y1 ?
A 32768Hz crystal
Excellent!
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is CX ?
A trimmer capacitor, likely 3-10pF. It's adjusted to make the clock
neither fast nor slow.
Hmm, C8 has something similar to that as well.

A picture of a Thunderclock Plus would help since CX on mine is missing. :-/
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is D1 ?
What is D2 ?
Two silicon diodes, typically "signal" diodes, not "power" diodes, used to
isolate the battery power from the system power
Thanks! That helps -- are there any ratings for signal diodes?
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Q2 ?
What is Q4 ?
Two transistors, which should be labeled on the flat side of their cases
Unfortunately the (silk screen?) labels have worn off of them. :-/
I'm assuming Q1 == Q2 == Q3 == Q4 since they look identical.
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Although it's always fun to do a project like this, wouldn't the "No Slot
Clock" (still widely available) be a more convenient clock--or do you
really need clock interrupts?
Well, I don't "need" clock interrupts. I have a No Slot Clock on order so while that is more definitely more convenient this project is more about being able to reproduce an exact (modern) replica.

Thanks again for clarifying some of the missing information!
Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
2016-07-09 06:37:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is CX ?
A trimmer capacitor, likely 3-10pF. It's adjusted to make the clock
neither fast nor slow.
Hmm, C8 has something similar to that as well.
Guess I should have searched google images first ;-)
https://www.google.com/search?q=thunderclock&tbm=isch

Found thse two high resolution pic!

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

So CX (bottom right) is unused / jumper.

D1 = M 52

Looks like rev 1.3 removed D2.

The mystery deepens!
Michael J. Mahon
2016-07-09 07:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Without looking at a ThunderClock, but applying standard component
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Y1 ?
A 32768Hz crystal
Excellent!
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is CX ?
A trimmer capacitor, likely 3-10pF. It's adjusted to make the clock
neither fast nor slow.
Hmm, C8 has something similar to that as well.
A picture of a Thunderclock Plus would help since CX on mine is missing. :-/
After looking at the picture, C8 is definitely the trimmer capacitor, and
CX is a spot for a largish value decoupling capacitor (if it was found to
be necessary). Assuming it's +5v decoupling, I'd expect a suitable
value--if needed--would be about 10uF at about 15v.
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is D1 ?
What is D2 ?
Two silicon diodes, typically "signal" diodes, not "power" diodes, used to
isolate the battery power from the system power
Thanks! That helps -- are there any ratings for signal diodes?
Almost any small, glass-cased silicon diode, like a 1N914 or 1N4148. Max
inverse voltage >20v, max forward current anything over 50mA.
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
What is Q2 ?
What is Q4 ?
Two transistors, which should be labeled on the flat side of their cases
Unfortunately the (silk screen?) labels have worn off of them. :-/
I'm assuming Q1 == Q2 == Q3 == Q4 since they look identical.
Possibly, but the NPN and PNP devices look physically identical. They are
likely pretty generic transistor types, like 2N3904 or 2N3906, but I'd use
a multitester to be sure which is which.
Post by Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'
Post by Michael J. Mahon
Although it's always fun to do a project like this, wouldn't the "No Slot
Clock" (still widely available) be a more convenient clock--or do you
really need clock interrupts?
Well, I don't "need" clock interrupts. I have a No Slot Clock on order so
while that is more definitely more convenient this project is more about
being able to reproduce an exact (modern) replica.
Thanks again for clarifying some of the missing information!
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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