Prototype cards

Post by Anthony Adverse
Anyone got a source for proto boards at a decent price? I've been struggling, I found c64 cards, but with the cart cover they become expensive. Also looked at ISA cards, if you cut the first two "fingers" off they'll work too. But haven't actually found any of those. Ideally I'd like to find these in Australia, but if the price is right, I can buy overseas. Also I'm only looking ~5 definately not more than 5..
A

I have one Apple II prototyping card that is full of solder pad holes for wire wrapping sockets, etc., that I have never used. I don't remember what it cost me, though.

James Davis

2018-10-17 07:56:59 UTC

I have one Apple II prototyping card that is full of solder pad holes for wire wrapping sockets, etc., that I have never used. I don't remember what it cost me, though.

You could make your own with copper plated perf-board and a PCB etching kit. And a coping saw!

Michael Black

2018-10-17 19:31:55 UTC

I have one Apple II prototyping card that is full of solder pad holes for wire wrapping sockets, etc., that I have never used. I don't remember what it cost me, though.

You could make your own with copper plated perf-board and a PCB etching
kit. And a coping saw!

At one time you could get a "Letraset" type stuff that you'd rub on the
copper as resist, lay out your board that way. And you could get a package
with "edge connectors", ie the right pads and spacing to allow you to lay
out the edge connector resist.

I might just take a piece of perforboard or whatever, and cut the edge
connector part off an existing circuit board, and wire it up.

As I recall, other types of boards had the same pad spacing, but the count
was different. Maybe that was the ISA Bus for the IBM PC, I can't
remember. Put poke around, something that isn't valuable might supple the
edge connector with a bit of cutting.

Michael

James Davis

2018-10-17 21:21:17 UTC

The one I have looks a lot like this one:

https://www.reactivemicro.com/product/apple-ii-prototyping-board-from-glitchworks/

f***@hotmail.com

2018-10-17 14:23:38 UTC

Something like this...?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/351415599198

f

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-17 16:13:49 UTC

Post by f***@hotmail.com
Something like this...?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/351415599198
f

Something like that, don't really need the headers in the "front" maybe I'm underestimating, but I thought $13US and another $15 to ship it was a little steep.

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-17 22:51:12 UTC

Its PC/XT ISA bus which has the right connector with two extra pads on it, in theory you could also use the AT ISA and cut 16 bit fingers off altogether. However I can't find those available either. Kicking myself for having thrown some out 2 moves ago.

The glitchworks card looks nice. Would be perfect, its shipping that kills it as much as anything, $13AUS for card and another $22AUS to ship it. I think I just paid $12-15AUS over the counter last time I bought one. That's why I'd rather find one already in the land downunder if I can.

At the moment I've layed hand to a piece of vero board, and am considering just hanging on until I can find a second hand card to cannibalise.

A

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-18 01:42:32 UTC

I think I found a source for $5 16k cards, maybe I'll splurge on some of those and butcher them, just have to get there, it'll be a good drive.

Scott Alfter

2018-10-18 21:40:52 UTC

Post by Anthony Adverse
At the moment I've layed hand to a piece of vero board, and am
considering just hanging on until I can find a second hand card to
cannibalise.

As cheap as it is to get custom PCBs made anymore, maybe I need to look into
what it'd cost to get prototyping boards made. Plugging the maximum overall
dimensions (7"x3.05") for a card that'll fit any slot into Elecrow, it looks
like you could get five boards made for about $23, or 10 for about $31.
Shipping's usually been fairly cheap from them too, at least to here.

(Longer cards (up to 10", with a cutout to accommodate the slope of the case
lid) would run about $27 for 5 or $38 for 10.)

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Lukazi

2018-10-18 06:43:17 UTC

A while back I got a few ISA Bus boards from Futurlec when I ordered a bunch of electronic components so it didn't end up costing me much more.

https://www.futurlec.com/Protoboards.shtml

James Davis

2018-10-18 08:17:49 UTC

Here is another one:

https://www.reactivemicro.com/product/superproto-v1-0-assembled-or-kit/

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-18 08:43:56 UTC

Post by James Davis
https://www.reactivemicro.com/product/superproto-v1-0-assembled-or-kit/

I'll have to win tattslotto to afford them.

awanderin

2018-10-18 21:33:49 UTC

Post by James Davis
https://www.reactivemicro.com/product/superproto-v1-0-assembled-or-kit/

I'll have to win tattslotto to afford them.

And the store says they are out of stock.

--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com

cb meeks

2018-10-19 01:31:39 UTC

I've bought several of these. I usually offer $8 and he usually accepts. Even at $13 they are a good bargain. Good quality.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-peripheral-card-prototyping-PCB-classic-computer/351415599198?epid=1949597991&hash=item51d200805e:g:ETIAAOSwYHxWQT2x:rk:1:pf:0

James Davis

2018-10-19 18:53:57 UTC

Isn't there an Apple Tech Note that has a precise drawing of a Prototyping Card? IIRC, I thought I saw one once. With it, a Sharpie-Pen, a copper plated perf-board, and a PCB etching kit, you could make your own PCBs!

You need to get the perf-board with a solid (non-perforated) boarder all around it, large enough to make the 50-pin connector part.

I used to get it all (non-perf- and perf-board included) in the Radio-Shack PCB etching kit. I'm sure they sell similar kits in most electronics hobby stores, too. Even in Australia!

With perf-board, you can prototype using wire-wrapping sockets and techniques.

Later on, you can draw a complete PCB layout on the non-perf/solid-copper-plated-board and solder sockets and/or electronics devices to it.

It's not difficult, just time-consuming.

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-20 04:57:50 UTC

Post by James Davis
Isn't there an Apple Tech Note that has a precise drawing of a Prototyping Card? IIRC, I thought I saw one once. With it, a Sharpie-Pen, a copper plated perf-board, and a PCB etching kit, you could make your own PCBs!
You need to get the perf-board with a solid (non-perforated) boarder all around it, large enough to make the 50-pin connector part.
I used to get it all (non-perf- and perf-board included) in the Radio-Shack PCB etching kit. I'm sure they sell similar kits in most electronics hobby stores, too. Even in Australia!
With perf-board, you can prototype using wire-wrapping sockets and techniques.
Later on, you can draw a complete PCB layout on the non-perf/solid-copper-plated-board and solder sockets and/or electronics devices to it.
It's not difficult, just time-consuming.

I believe thats the one with the wrong dimensions on it :P I'm no electronics dude, I don't know anything about wire wrap... I don't know anything about whats it board either... I just get a card bang my bits on it, and pray for the best :)

James Davis

2018-10-20 07:41:49 UTC

Post by Anthony Adverse
I believe thats the one with the wrong dimensions on it :P I'm no electronics dude, I don't know anything about wire wrap... I don't know anything about whats it board either... I just get a card bang my bits on it, and pray for the best :)

Well, unless you are an old dog, it is never too late to learn.

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-21 01:04:28 UTC

Well, unless you are an old dog, it is never too late to learn.

I'm a broken down dog... :P I tend to have an idea.... draw it out on paper, and then move it onto a card... no other prototyping.. But they're also typically KISS...

A

James Davis

2018-11-03 07:41:26 UTC

Well, unless you are an old dog, it is never too late to learn.

Look them up on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
then search for "perfboard" and "wire wrap" and then, follow links to similar products (e.g., stripboard) that might interest you.

You can learn a lot from Wikipedia!

awanderin

2018-10-21 04:59:26 UTC

There's documentation for an Apple prototype card on Asimov:

ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardware/misc/Apple_Prototyping_Card_Manual.pdf

In the same directory is a file called

Apple Computer Co Prototyping Card for 2 series - PN 820-0013-00 300dpi scan .zip

that contains two high-resolution BMP files with the front and back of
the prototype card. I think that would be sufficient to make your own.

--
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com

Michael J. Mahon

2018-10-21 21:33:28 UTC

ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardware/misc/Apple_Prototyping_Card_Manual.pdf
In the same directory is a file called
Apple Computer Co Prototyping Card for 2 series - PN 820-0013-00 300dpi scan .zip
that contains two high-resolution BMP files with the front and back of
the prototype card. I think that would be sufficient to make your own.

The trouble with making a replica prototyping board at home is the several
hundred drilled and plated-through vias that cover the board.

Small lot PCB manufacturers are so plentiful and inexpensive that it’s
really the only practical way to go if you can’t find one ready made
(perhaps by someone else ;-).

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

Anthony Adverse

2018-10-22 01:03:40 UTC

The trouble with making a replica prototyping board at home is the several
hundred drilled and plated-through vias that cover the board.
Small lot PCB manufacturers are so plentiful and inexpensive that it’s
really the only practical way to go if you can’t find one ready made
(perhaps by someone else ;-).
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

I think you're right. I found a local manufacturer, and the price per board is really quite low.. now my next problem is a gerbil file. I've only had a brief look at any "recent" software, and it looks erm difficult to drive.

Michael J. Mahon

2018-10-22 04:57:15 UTC

The trouble with making a replica prototyping board at home is the several
hundred drilled and plated-through vias that cover the board.
Small lot PCB manufacturers are so plentiful and inexpensive that it’s
really the only practical way to go if you can’t find one ready made
(perhaps by someone else ;-).
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

I think you're right. I found a local manufacturer, and the price per
board is really quite low.. now my next problem is a gerbil file. I've
only had a brief look at any "recent" software, and it looks erm difficult to drive.

I wonder if anyone has open sourced an Apple proto card...

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

David Schmenk

2018-10-22 14:16:01 UTC

The trouble with making a replica prototyping board at home is the several
hundred drilled and plated-through vias that cover the board.
Small lot PCB manufacturers are so plentiful and inexpensive that it’s
really the only practical way to go if you can’t find one ready made
(perhaps by someone else ;-).
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

I think you're right. I found a local manufacturer, and the price per
board is really quite low.. now my next problem is a gerbil file. I've
only had a brief look at any "recent" software, and it looks erm difficult to drive.

I wonder if anyone has open sourced an Apple proto card...
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/09/12/lego-logo-interface

Anthony Adverse

2018-11-01 23:57:22 UTC

While I'm busy trying to source proto cards, It looks like I need a crash course in PCB design software. The last thing I remember looking at was, autotrax.. in glorious CGA... it was simple to drive. grab your piece put it on the board and link it up. Any suggestions for something KISS?? My overclocked chimp brain seems to be struggling with the current offerings.

A

Scott Alfter

2018-11-02 17:45:22 UTC

Post by Anthony Adverse
While I'm busy trying to source proto cards, It looks like I need a
crash course in PCB design software. The last thing I remember looking
at was, autotrax.. in glorious CGA... it was simple to drive. grab your
piece put it on the board and link it up. Any suggestions for something
KISS?? My overclocked chimp brain seems to be struggling with the
current offerings.

I've been using KiCad lately. It's free-as-in-speech, so your designs are
less likely to fall to planned obsolescence over time, and it's reasonably
powerful without being too much of a pain to learn.

http://kicad-pcb.org/

For examples of Apple II projects designed with KiCad, you might have a look
at these:

https://gitlab.com/salfter/a2gpio
(a dual-6522 board)

https://gitlab.com/salfter/A2RPi_v2
(an Apple II Pi workalike)

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Anthony Adverse

2018-11-03 04:00:30 UTC

Post by Scott Alfter

So you have to draw up a schematic before you can build your pcb?

James Davis

2018-11-03 07:48:44 UTC

Post by Scott Alfter

So you have to draw up a schematic before you can build your pcb?

You can learn a lot from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiCad

Scott Alfter

2018-11-05 17:05:18 UTC