Discussion:
Now I played with the FastChip IIe some thoughts about the motherboard itself
(too old to reply)
Cyril Thibout
2018-02-05 08:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi

I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.

The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the mother board itself!

As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!

which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.

With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them will become necessary soon.

Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?

Thanks

Cyril
cb meeks
2018-02-05 13:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to do.

Anyway...just curious.
D Finnigan
2018-02-05 14:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by cb meeks
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the
mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to
replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them
will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I
mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known
for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to do.
Faster Merlin assembly. I develop and debug only in assembly language and
only on a real Apple IIe, so the faster the assembly, the happier I am.

Also have an accelerator makes boring old games more challenging and fun.
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
cb meeks
2018-02-05 14:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Finnigan
Post by cb meeks
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the
mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to
replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them
will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I
mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known
for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to do.
Faster Merlin assembly. I develop and debug only in assembly language and
only on a real Apple IIe, so the faster the assembly, the happier I am.
Also have an accelerator makes boring old games more challenging and fun.
--
]DF$
http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Ah, those are two good examples.

I could easily see it helping with flight-sim games too.
Anthony Ortiz
2018-02-05 15:33:11 UTC
Permalink
I know for some people it’s all about the journey, similar to fly/ice fishing where people spend an entire day enjoying the minimalistic experience while the actual attainment of fish seems secondary. I can see this applying to the Apple II where every second spent waiting for something to process is savored in our endless quest to recapture the times of our youth. Then there are others who see the journey simply as a means to an end; the faster we can catch those fish the more fish we’ll have or the more time left to perform other tasks. These people don’t care to wait for lines to draw on a double-hi-res screen, or for a simple sort to finish, or for data to load from disk; they want to be in control of how they spend their time since they don’t derive enjoyment from, for what is to them, the mundane. I’m some of the former and more of the latter, but to each his own.

What I would do with more speed is push the envelope of what can be done on the Apple II. More speed means it’s possible to have more resolution, more colors, more detail and power to develop a richer and smoother user experience. We can finally have a web browser on the Apple II! This is what I would do with all that extra speed.
cb meeks
2018-02-05 15:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Ortiz
I know for some people it’s all about the journey, similar to fly/ice fishing where people spend an entire day enjoying the minimalistic experience while the actual attainment of fish seems secondary. I can see this applying to the Apple II where every second spent waiting for something to process is savored in our endless quest to recapture the times of our youth. Then there are others who see the journey simply as a means to an end; the faster we can catch those fish the more fish we’ll have or the more time left to perform other tasks. These people don’t care to wait for lines to draw on a double-hi-res screen, or for a simple sort to finish, or for data to load from disk; they want to be in control of how they spend their time since they don’t derive enjoyment from, for what is to them, the mundane. I’m some of the former and more of the latter, but to each his own.
What I would do with more speed is push the envelope of what can be done on the Apple II. More speed means it’s possible to have more resolution, more colors, more detail and power to develop a richer and smoother user experience. We can finally have a web browser on the Apple II! This is what I would do with all that extra speed.
That's a good point as well. I'm somewhat in the middle. Sometimes I will load a game via cassette for the nostalgia. But that doesn't last long. lol

When it comes to hardware upgrades to vintage systems, to me it comes down to what annoys me the most with them.

For example, with just about every vintage system I have, the following are usually annoying and/or risky:

1) Power supplies (I don't get nostalgic for power supplies...I'd rather have a reliable and new PSU).

2) Video. Composite is fine. RF is fine sometimes. But VGA is better. IMHO, the F18a (replacement for TMS9918) has the right idea. 100% cycle accurate replacement for a better display. VGA monitors are cheap with a small footprint (LCD versions, anyway). Using my TI99-4/a with my 15" VGA monitor is an absolute joy.

3) Storage. Giant disk drives (I'm looking at you 1541) are a thing of beauty sometimes. But wow they take up some space.


I could probably name 20 other things before I landed on slow speeds.


But, I can clearly see how more speed can be an advantage to some.
I am Rob
2018-02-05 18:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by cb meeks
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to do.
Anyway...just curious.
I am into creating dbl hi-res games and compressing dbl hi-res screens. The extra speed is much needed.
Scott Alfter
2018-02-06 16:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by cb meeks
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I
mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known
for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to
do.
It all depends on what you want to do. Way back in the day, I was the
newsletter editor for the local Apple user group. I ran PublishIt! 4 on a
IIe running at 10 MHz. That speed made the interface much more responsive,
so you spent less time waiting for the screen to redraw and more time
getting stuff done.

I didn't have a laser printer at home (only had an Imagewriter), but I had
access to one in the computer lab at school. I generated a PostScript file,
uploaded it, and printed it out. As long as I stayed within a handful of
fonts that mapped to what was available on the printer, you would never have
guessed I was using an Apple II.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Ianoid
2018-02-06 16:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by cb meeks
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to do.
Anyway...just curious.
Speed is great for archival. I make a lot of EDD images and it speeds up the process by several minutes.

Almost any utility function, it saves time. And for programmers, it's huge. It's nice just to boot games faster and then set the speed back to 1mHz.
Matthew Power
2018-02-07 00:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by cb meeks
I'm curious...what do people use a faster A2 for? I don't mean IIgs. I
mean, why are people into speeding up the A2? I know the A2 isn't known
for speed but I've never known it to be too slow for what *I* want to
do.
I like my IIe running accelerated for two main reasons: 1) a super snappy A2Desktop, and 2) running the Contiki web browser with the Uthernet II. I can power-on, mouse over to Contiki, read the morning news and weather, and power-off before my Windows computer even gets to the login screen. 'Course I could do the same on my phone, but that's not the point :-)
Cyril Thibout
2018-02-07 21:10:33 UTC
Permalink
But again my topic was about creating a new a2 motherboard .
It could be much simpler than originally thought since with the fastchip board almost everything is already on the fastchip board.

What we need on this new motherboard is a power plug, the external connectors and the slots with some chips related.
TheJ
2018-02-07 23:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
But again my topic was about creating a new a2 motherboard .
It could be much simpler than originally thought since with the fastchip
board almost everything is already on the fastchip board.
What we need on this new motherboard is a power plug, the external
connectors and the slots with some chips related.
Yes, the FastChip is like a mobo. It HAD to be.
The standard 1MHz bus is just too slow to support further acceleration so
other parts like Memory had to be on the same board.


I've had the thought that a secondary bus could be implemented on the top of
the accelerator card. That way it could be plugged in to the real Apple 2
MoBo AND it could be connected to other cards via a secondary high(er) speed
bus to other cards in the same Apple 2.

An accelerator card would be the ideal card to be the "master" of that bus.
Maybe SPI could be used... maybe something else (that runs faster than 1
MHz).

This would create TWO "Apple 2" systems in the same case: an accelerated
Apple 2 and a "modernized" Apple 2.

It would, of course, require cards that support the bus to actually work.

j
Anthony Ortiz
2018-02-07 23:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Coming soon to an Apple II near you!
James Davis
2018-02-08 21:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
But again my topic was about creating a new a2 motherboard .
It could be much simpler than originally thought since with the fastchip board almost everything is already on the fastchip board.
What we need on this new motherboard is a power plug, the external connectors and the slots with some chips related.
I saw a programmable controller chip (at Fry's Electronics last year) that is the same size as a 6502 chip, but the pin-out and some of the signals were different or on different pins. I imagine you could make a socket adapter for it to replace the Apple II MPU and program the controller chip to work like (or better than) a 65c02, kind of like the specialized chips in IIc's and IIgs's.
Cyril Thibout
2018-02-05 21:23:10 UTC
Permalink
FOr me it's about upgrading the IIe the way I upgraded it years ago.
In the 80's we added RGB and modem boards, why shouldn't we continue.

Now my Apple IIe has a CFFA3000 board that supports USB sticks instead of floppies, a new Mocking board, a FastShip IIe for the 16.1 Mhz and 1Mb ram and a ChatMauve Board for the RGB output.

My initial post was about the motherboard itself. How will we replace it when it breaks up ?

thanks

cyril
cb meeks
2018-02-05 21:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
My initial post was about the motherboard itself. How will we replace it when it breaks up ?
It has been my dream for years to create an Apple IIe compatible motherboard. I really hope to do it one day. I'm currently designing a slot-based computer (called the M-1) that will use slots in a very similar fashion as the II. Up to 8 of them. But it won't be compatible initially (perhaps M-3 or M-4).

My idea modern replacement would be a sort of hybrid between IIe and IIc in that it has physical slots, but also has a few things implemented onboard (like a Mockingboard and SSC).
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-06 01:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
FOr me it's about upgrading the IIe the way I upgraded it years ago.
In the 80's we added RGB and modem boards, why shouldn't we continue.
Now my Apple IIe has a CFFA3000 board that supports USB sticks instead of
floppies, a new Mocking board, a FastShip IIe for the 16.1 Mhz and 1Mb
ram and a ChatMauve Board for the RGB output.
My initial post was about the motherboard itself. How will we replace it
when it breaks up ?
thanks
cyril
I'd be a lot more interested in the FastChip if it had a switch setting
that enabled it to cache ROM.

I have plenty of assembly language code, but I have a lot of "offline"
Applesoft code, too.

My 8MHz Zip Chips accelerate Applesoft beautifully, and a FastChip would be
a downgrade.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
James Davis
2018-02-06 03:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
Speeding things up with my Zip-Chip 8 MHz and a Sider HDD makes AppleWorks and all the TimeOut stuff load very quickly.

Currently, if you want to replace your motherboard, you have to buy another (used) Apple II. I bought an extra used EA2e in the 1990's just to have it for repairs. It is still a lady in waiting. [I need(?) to get my parallel printer interface card fixed because it got zapped when I opened my EA2e lid last year during static season. The extra EA2e does not help me there. (?) I don't really need it A.S.A.P., as I don't use my EA2e (or its printer) much, anymore.]
James Davis
2018-02-08 21:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
The actual motherboards are (probably) made of fiberglass (and will probably last forever) and could (probably) be thoroughly cleaned and re-soldered in a solder-bath. What you are talking about, though, is all the stuff that wears out, sockets and chips. You could replace all the sockets, and socket for soldered on chips, while you are re-solder-bathing the motherboard. Then, the motherboard would be just like new! Then, you could easily replace any worn out chips and peripheral cards, as necessary.
James Davis
2018-02-08 21:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Davis
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
The actual motherboards are (probably) made of fiberglass (and will probably last forever) and could (probably) be thoroughly cleaned and re-soldered in a solder-bath. What you are talking about, though, is all the stuff that wears out, sockets and chips. You could replace all the sockets, and socket for soldered on chips, while you are re-solder-bathing the motherboard. Then, the motherboard would be just like new! Then, you could easily replace any worn out chips and peripheral cards, as necessary.
I wonder if there are companies that will do this for anyone?
Michael J. Mahon
2018-02-08 21:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Davis
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
I just purchased the FastChip IIe from a2heaven and am very happy about it.
The truth is that the board fixed new issues that start to appear on the
mother board itself!
As a matter of fact some original ram chips became faulty and I had to
replace them until the fastchip replaced them all!
which brings me to this idea about remplacing the Apple II mother board itself.
With age they are more and more faulty and considering remplacing them
will become necessary soon.
Is there someone out there figuring how it could be made ?
Thanks
Cyril
The actual motherboards are (probably) made of fiberglass (and will
probably last forever) and could (probably) be thoroughly cleaned and
re-soldered in a solder-bath. What you are talking about, though, is all
the stuff that wears out, sockets and chips. You could replace all the
sockets, and socket for soldered on chips, while you are
re-solder-bathing the motherboard. Then, the motherboard would be just
like new! Then, you could easily replace any worn out chips and
peripheral cards, as necessary.
Ironically, sockets are the most failure-prone components on the main
board--including electrolytics.

I've never seen an Apple II main board "wear out", but I've seen several
damaged by improper storage.

Any physically undamaged printed circuit board built with through-hole
components can be repaired as long as the components are available.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Cyril Thibout
2018-02-09 08:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi

in my case I need to replace the 8 ram chips. Where can I buy new ones please ?

Hadn't I the FastChip IIe board that replaces almost everything on the motherboard, I wouldn't be able to turn my AppleIIe on anymore

Cyril
James Davis
2018-02-09 17:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Thibout
Hi
in my case I need to replace the 8 ram chips. Where can I buy new ones please ?
Hadn't I the FastChip IIe board that replaces almost everything on the motherboard, I wouldn't be able to turn my AppleIIe on anymore
Cyril
I may have some. Check out my post on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.
Loading...