Last stupid Apple II newbie questions for 2024 ...

[Sebastian]

... at least on here. Seriously, I appreciate you opening this post and
reading it.

A few words beforehand:
I'm a (retro) Macintosh guy. Born in 1981. First Mac in 1991. But too
young to have experienced the Apple II days. Never got around to using
one. But it's never to late, eh? This is the holiday season and with free
time at my hands, I want to go for that Apple II experience! Couple of
questions:

1.) Emulation
Where I live original Apple II hardware is scarce & expensive. Not much of
a fan of software emulation, but I saw there were several emulators out
there. What about actual hardware emulation? Are there "faithful" Apple
II(e) reincarnations in FPGA, nicely boxed and ready-to-use? Or let me
rephrase that - what's a beginner's best way to experience the Apple II
today? Mainly interested in the Apple II(e) stuff, somewhat less in the
IIGS.

2.) Info sources
Are there "fanpage websites" (for lack of a better word)? Some place that
gives beginners like me an overview? I learned about the models like the
][ or the IIe on Wiki but I wonder where to find specific hands-on info on
e.g. top 5 word processors or whether or not a Gopher client for the Apple
II exists. Or how to access Usenet on an Apple II. Stuff of that kind,
that exceeds historical info or tech specs. I could name a page in the
vintage Mac universe that I deem a good example, but I don't want to dump
URLs here.

3.) What's the thing with OSes? The Apple II apparently had a variety of
different OSes from what I read? Like Apple DOS, ProDOS and even some kind
of CP/M. What's generally advisable to look into? What is the most
sophisticated, how do they differ and is any still in development maybe?

4.) Any good sources from where software can be obtained? Again, coming
from the Macintosh scene, we have the Mac Garden which gives downloads
with screenshots and a description. Very neat. Anything comparable
available for the Apple II family?


If possible, please provide links to written info. I much prefer them over
videos. Thank you everybody for your help, I really appreciate all helpful
answers! :-)

[D Finnigan]

Post by Sebastian
1.) Emulation

I'll leave this one to others.

Post by Sebastian
2.) Info sources
Are there "fanpage websites" (for lack of a better word)? Some place that
gives beginners like me an overview?

For Apple IIgs, try https://whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za

The Apple II FAQs are a really good source. I read these over loads of times
in my early Apple II days. Take a look here:
https://gswv.apple2.org.za/a2zine/faqs/A2FAQs2CONTENT.html

Post by Sebastian
3.) What's the thing with OSes? The Apple II apparently had a variety of
different OSes from what I read? Like Apple DOS, ProDOS and even some kind
of CP/M. What's generally advisable to look into? What is the most
sophisticated, how do they differ and is any still in development maybe?

Read the Apple II FAQs on this topic here:
https://gswv.apple2.org.za/a2zine/faqs/Csa2DOSMM.html

Post by Sebastian
4.) Any good sources from where software can be obtained?

I'll leave this one to others.

[Steve Nickolas]

Post by Sebastian
I'm a (retro) Macintosh guy. Born in 1981. First Mac in 1991. But too
young to have experienced the Apple II days. Never got around to using
one. But it's never to late, eh?

I was born in 1980, so I'm not that much older than you but I was right in
the thick of it.

Post by Sebastian
3.) What's the thing with OSes? The Apple II apparently had a variety of
different OSes from what I read? Like Apple DOS, ProDOS and even some kind
of CP/M. What's generally advisable to look into? What is the most
sophisticated, how do they differ and is any still in development maybe?

Most Apple ][ software used bespoke OSes. DOS 3.3 wasn't uncommon either
and ProDOS was used for more serious stuff later on.

A couple of us have converted software to ProDOS, because ProDOS will work
with arbitrary drives, where DOS 3.3 and bespoke OSes only work with
drives that resemble the original 5.25" floppy drive. (For example,
ProDOS on a hard drive partition or a 1.44 MB floppy on a Macintosh LC
with an emulator card, a configuration I myself use.)

-uso.

[mmphosis]

There is no such thing as a stupid question.

I'll drop off an Apple II plus if you are nearby.

1.) Emulation

KEGS

https://kegs.sourceforge.net/

Mac: Virtual II

https://www.virtualii.com/

Wine: AppleWin

and so many more emulators.

2.) Info sources

https://macgui.com/usenet/

https://www.applefritter.com/tracker

https://old.reddit.com/r/apple2/

and so many more websites.

3.) What's the thing with OSes?

The beauty of the 8-bit era was a lack of OSes. Boot up instantly to a
prompt.
Apple DOS, USCD Pascal, ProDOS, CP/M are simple file systems with ways to
launch programs.

4.) Any good sources from where software can be obtained?

https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_apple

[Lifepillar]

Post by Sebastian
4.) Any good sources from where software can be obtained?

Beside everything that's already been mentioned, you may also take
a look at this repository:

https://github.com/lifepillar/homebrew-appleii

Even if you're not on macOS, many tools there are cross-platform. Just
look inside the Formula folder for command-line programs, and Casks for
GUI apps. Each .rb script contains a URL to the corresponding project.

Enjoy,
Life.

[Sebastian]

Post by Lifepillar
Beside everything that's already been mentioned, you may also take
https://github.com/lifepillar/homebrew-appleii
Even if you're not on macOS, many tools there are cross-platform. Just
look inside the Formula folder for command-line programs, and Casks for
GUI apps. Each .rb script contains a URL to the corresponding project.
Enjoy,
Life.

What a surprise to find so many helpful and friendly answers on the
supposedly "dead Usenet". Thanks everybody for taking the time to
answer! (I envision everybody typing their answers on an Apple II with
a black & green monitor ... :-) )

The Apple II FAQ looks like precisely what I was looking for. I'll
plough through it the next few days. Judging from a first look, that's
what it'll take. I'll also check out all the other links. Thank you for
sharing!

Post by Lifepillar
I was born in 1980, so I'm not that much older than you but I was right
in the thick of it.

Yes, but probably in the U.S.? Look, we here in Central Europe lagged
years behind you, with the exception of the UK, perhaps. When the
masses took to computers, it was the Commodore 64 they picked. Can't
blame them, Apple did a lousy marketing job over here. (and would
continue to do so, way into the 2000's ...)

Post by Lifepillar
I'll drop off an Apple II plus if you are nearby.

That's a very kind offer, really! But like I wrote, I'm in Central
Europe, that's probably a looong way :-)

I'll digest all the valuable info and hope it's OK for me to ask any
remaining questions after that. Virtual II is installed and I'm looking
forward to the upcoming weekend :-)

Have a great weekend everybody!

[Steve Nickolas]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Sebastian wrote:

(quoting me)

Post by Steve Nickolas
I was born in 1980, so I'm not that much older than you but I was right in
the thick of it.

Yes, but probably in the U.S.? Look, we here in Central Europe lagged years
behind you, with the exception of the UK, perhaps. When the masses took to
computers, it was the Commodore 64 they picked. Can't blame them, Apple did a
lousy marketing job over here. (and would continue to do so, way into the
2000's ...)

Yeah, US. The C64 was more popular, but the ][ (more precisely the //e)
was what the schools had.

Plus side...the 65SC02 of the //e and the 6510 of the C64 are close
relatives.

-uso.

[Oliver Schmidt]

Hi,

Post by Sebastian
(I envision everybody typing their answers on an Apple II with
a black & green monitor ... :-) )

On an 8bit Apple II (aka non IIgs) that pretty much requires
https://github.com/bobbimanners/emailler (and a http://a2retrosystems.com).

Or you use the Apple II "only" Terminal. Either serial or via Ethernet.

Regards,
Oliver

[phigan]

Post by Sebastian
e.g. top 5 word processors or whether or not a Gopher client for the Apple
II exists. Or how to access Usenet on an Apple II. Stuff of that kind,

Personally, I use text web (lynx/links), usenet (slrn), gopher, and irc
on my BBS from various old computers. It's the Public Electronic
Networked Information System. The clients are in the 'doors' section. I
have 'vi' set as the editor, but I can change it to something easier.
penisys.online:6502. You can use ProTerm or Agate or whatever term.